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Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 5:34:29 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		I stole the following from a thread on the Gorean forum because it got me to thinking about something ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
Too many women seek this sort of thing as an escape from reality or responsibility-or they have some silly romantic fantasy of "the way it will be". A fantasy they need to be shown as such.

But when it comes to actual service and work-let alone honesty-few seem cut out to show the determination and fortitude to actually go the mile. It's best to get rid of the inferior ones quickly.


As a slave, I do have expectations of a potential Master. And yes, romance is part of it for me. Is that silly? Perhaps.

OR ... Is it silly to think that a woman (born and raised in a country where the ideal is that everyone has been created equal and has rights and so on and so forth) is going to actually want to commit herself to a relationship where she quite literally does nothing but serve someone else and gets nothing in return except for being owned?

And why is it considered inferior if she does expect or desire such things? (Leatherist, if you were being tongue in cheek, I do apologize.) Whose fantasy is sillier? The one who wants a COMPLETE relationship or the one who just wants to own or be owned?

Is either fantasy silly? Aren't we always saying that you have to do whats right for you. If your relationship makes you happy, its a-ok and etc?

Even the Goreans tend to agree that the very best slave to own is a love-slave; ie a girl who is in love with, enraptured with and loved by her Master. So, why is romance silly when it comes to slavery?

Awaiting thoughts and comments ...


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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 5:44:06 PM   
Owner4SexSlave


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Status: offline 		I have no opposing remarks to what you just expressed.

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 5:48:25 PM   
girlfromthesouth


Posts: 9
Joined: 7/7/2008
Status: offline 		I think that a lot of elements play into that, with the most important being that of the individual: Does the submissive gain pleasure from serving? If so, then that will be their wish fulfillment. If that isn't enough for the submissive, then by all means they should ask for (and gain) more from the relationship-- such as romance, if that's their flavor.

quote:

Even the Goreans tend to agree that the very best slave to own is a love-slave; ie a girl who is in love with, enraptured with and loved by her Master. So, why is romance silly when it comes to slavery?


Another element that falls completely upon the individual, but I have noticed unrealistic expectations from a number of people seeking to be owned. That is very unfortunate, but you have to keep in mind that when looking for such a serious relationship (be it marriage, being collared, what have you), people can afford to be picky. We look at that and we kind of scratch our heads at how unrealistic they're being, but if that's their requirements for happiness within a relationship then that's that.

They are going to have trouble finding someone with that sort of attitude, though.

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 5:53:12 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		One of the attitudes that is unfortunately common on these boards is:

"The way I play is the best.  It is the only one that is true/natural/real.  All other sexual desires are fake/posers"

You have to learn to ignore this attitude.

Figure out what YOU like, what turns YOU on.  Then look for a person that likes doing that for you and who has a desire/turn on that you like to do to him.

There is nothing wrong with demanding romance.  There is nothing wrong with eschewing romance.  There is nothing wrong with liking pain.  There is nothing wrong with liking obedience but not liking pain. 

There is something wrong if you like X but tell everyone you like Y.   It is your responsibility to honestly and truthfully describe your own needs and desires, nothing else.

If someone says they are real/natural/true, ask them what they mean because the words real/natural/true are NOT helpful in describing their sexual needs

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 5:58:37 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think Leatherist was suggesting that having romantic ideals and fantasies is bad or necessarily unrealistic.

However, seeking an escape from reality and having a clearly fantasy unreasonable view of the adult world in which they are a spoiled pet but get the moniker of service slave- that's a problem.

And there's a heck of a lot of those out there.

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:02:53 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Evening sexy twilighted one,

I think what he was talking about are the slaves that think as soon as the collar closes it is going to magically make all of the other issues in their lives go away.  I have talked to many a woman over the years that thought being a slave was going to be treated like a pet, you know the whole kneel at the door waiting for their owner to come home, pet them, use them, and then they would spend the rest of the night at their owner's feet, rinse and repeat the next day.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a romantic relationship with one's owner, however that should be discussed going in, and not expected based on a fantasy notion that the owner is going to just fall in love with the slave.  I hope that makes a bit of sense, if not throw something in my general direction.

I wish you well,
Thadius

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:33:55 PM   
Leatherist


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Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't think Leatherist was suggesting that having romantic ideals and fantasies is bad or necessarily unrealistic.

However, seeking an escape from reality and having a clearly fantasy unreasonable view of the adult world in which they are a spoiled pet but get the moniker of service slave- that's a problem.

And there's a heck of a lot of those out there.


As usual, you and I see pretty much eye to eye on the "princess pet" fantasy.

I never suggested that you can't have romance in this. Only that another word for service is work.
 
 And that is the worst four letter word a slacking "pleasure slave" can possibly want to hear spoken by a potential "Master"
 
 What the fuck!!!!! I have to DO something besides suck your cock and get played with? That's SO wrong!!!!!! 

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:35:35 PM   
Leatherist


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Joined: 12/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Evening sexy twilighted one,

I think what he was talking about are the slaves that think as soon as the collar closes it is going to magically make all of the other issues in their lives go away.  I have talked to many a woman over the years that thought being a slave was going to be treated like a pet, you know the whole kneel at the door waiting for their owner to come home, pet them, use them, and then they would spend the rest of the night at their owner's feet, rinse and repeat the next day.

I don't see anything wrong with wanting a romantic relationship with one's owner, however that should be discussed going in, and not expected based on a fantasy notion that the owner is going to just fall in love with the slave.  I hope that makes a bit of sense, if not throw something in my general direction.

I wish you well,
Thadius


Yet strangely-washing dishes and doing laundry never seems to find a place in that fantasy.

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:37:45 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

<>
I never suggested that you can't have romance in this. Only that another word for service is work.
 
 And that is the worst four letter word a slacking "pleasure slave" can possibly want to hear spoken by a potential "Master"
 
 What the fuck!!!!! I have to DO something besides <submale's sex act of choice> and get played with? That's SO wrong!!!!!! 


[my quote alteration!]

Is there some way that we can impress this information on the brain of every male who thinks he wants to be a submissive?

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:40:02 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

<>
I never suggested that you can't have romance in this. Only that another word for service is work.
 
 And that is the worst four letter word a slacking "pleasure slave" can possibly want to hear spoken by a potential "Master"
 
 What the fuck!!!!! I have to DO something besides <submale's sex act of choice> and get played with? That's SO wrong!!!!!! 


[my quote alteration!]

Is there some way that we can impress this information on the brain of every male who thinks he wants to be a submissive?


My standard advice for new female tops is to come armed with one simple question.

Do you do windows?

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:41:06 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I love Leatherist. 

Just sayin'. 

Edited to add:

And btw, I never need my submissives to do any kind of thing around my house, my family and I have that under control.  But yanno?  It's nice to have someone on call!

< Message edited by LadyHibiscus -- 8/15/2008 6:43:35 PM >

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:43:36 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		girlfromthesouth,

so if a submissive derives pleasure from serving, the mere fact that she is permitted to serve is enough to create a fulfilling relationship?

I derive pleasure from eating ice cream but God knows I need more than ice cream to round out my diet or satisfy my palate.

I also derive pleasure from serving but again, I need more. One aspect does not a relationship make.

---

Thadius,

first of all, I love the way you address me. Thats hawt.

Second, I see what you mean. I used to think that way too. And to be honest, with my last collar, thats kind of what happened. All of my other issues did go away as a result of me being collared. However, I did develop other issues that I had to work through and I had to grow and change and do a bunch of things that a lot of people probably don't think about.

I know I didn't think about it when I begged for the collar. I grew into it, though. I wasn't simply disposed of the first time I balked or cried or wanted to leave. I think it was the notion of "getting rid of" someone that kind of struck a chord with me. If you just dump every girl who doesn't act like a slave from the very start, how many opportunities have you wasted?


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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:51:15 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Yet strangely-washing dishes and doing laundry never seems to find a place in that fantasy.


Actually, washing dishes and doing laundry were a given to me. I -knew- I was going to be doing those things. It was the other stuff that took me off guard ...

Things like the first time I was stripped naked and put on display ... I about came unglued when that happened.

Or things like him really meaning it when he told me I would never be used for sex. Period. I mean, I was ok with that at first but after awhile it was like ... Wait, no sex from anyone? At all? NONE? But ... But ... But ...

I guess my situation was different than what you meant.

Imagine my shock when I discovered that it was ok for me to fall in love with him, even expected, but that the love I recieved was more like that of a house cat. And it was ok for me to cry, so long as I still did as I was told.

Little shocking moments all along the way ...

Demanding to be released and being told no. Threatening to just flat out leave and being told to go to bed without so much as a raised eye brow. (As if I really had anywhere else to go at that point.) I threw a few tantrums in those early days, to be sure and I don't think it was so much out of wanting to be treated like a princess as it was trying to see just how far they'd let me push before they gave in and got rid of me.

Fortunately for me, they did neither and I learned from it.


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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:51:21 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		And if you don't insist that a girl show the merits needed to earn that collar-how is she going to appreciate it's meaning? As more than a luggage tag that says "hands off" to other tops?

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:53:45 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Yet strangely-washing dishes and doing laundry never seems to find a place in that fantasy.


Actually, washing dishes and doing laundry were a given to me. I -knew- I was going to be doing those things. It was the other stuff that took me off guard ...

Things like the first time I was stripped naked and put on display ... I about came unglued when that happened.

Or things like him really meaning it when he told me I would never be used for sex. Period. I mean, I was ok with that at first but after awhile it was like ... Wait, no sex from anyone? At all? NONE? But ... But ... But ...

I guess my situation was different than what you meant.

Imagine my shock when I discovered that it was ok for me to fall in love with him, even expected, but that the love I recieved was more like that of a house cat. And it was ok for me to cry, so long as I still did as I was told.

Little shocking moments all along the way ...

Demanding to be released and being told no. Threatening to just flat out leave and being told to go to bed without so much as a raised eye brow. (As if I really had anywhere else to go at that point.) I threw a few tantrums in those early days, to be sure and I don't think it was so much out of wanting to be treated like a princess as it was trying to see just how far they'd let me push before they gave in and got rid of me.

Fortunately for me, they did neither and I learned from it.



Try not to paint everyone else who uses a service dynamic with the same brush strokes you got from that clown. There are owners who can be compassionate-without being googly eyed little school boys.

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:54:14 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't earn my collar so I guess I don't really undestand your drift.

(I did know them for several years before I became their slave, by the way.)

Edited to add ...

That clown? How was he a clown?

I learned a lot from that experience.

-confused now-


< Message edited by opposingtwilight -- 8/15/2008 6:55:32 PM >

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:57:00 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

Thadius,

first of all, I love the way you address me. Thats hawt.

Second, I see what you mean. I used to think that way too. And to be honest, with my last collar, thats kind of what happened. All of my other issues did go away as a result of me being collared. However, I did develop other issues that I had to work through and I had to grow and change and do a bunch of things that a lot of people probably don't think about.

I know I didn't think about it when I begged for the collar. I grew into it, though. I wasn't simply disposed of the first time I balked or cried or wanted to leave. I think it was the notion of "getting rid of" someone that kind of struck a chord with me. If you just dump every girl who doesn't act like a slave from the very start, how many opportunities have you wasted?



I suppose the key is weighing the potential value of the slave against the ammount of time one is going to need to spend getting the slave up to an acceptable level of service.  Just like other relationships, is the value of the relationship worth the time that you are going to invest in it (a long distance relationship for example).  It is very dependant on the individuals involved, just like everything else.

Besides, are there women that don't act like slaves from the very start?

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 6:58:29 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: opposingtwilight

I didn't earn my collar so I guess I don't really undestand your drift.

(I did know them for several years before I became their slave, by the way.)

Edited to add ...

That clown? How was he a clown?

I learned a lot from that experience.

-confused now-



"Old school" pretty much has a slave earn a collar. A lot of people use that methodolgy to give a sense of structure and balance to someone who is learning. It also builds a sense of self pride and accomplishment-which helps the service to be better in the long run. The service itself needs to have value-to all parties involved.

And I think of this person you were with as a "clown" because he took objectification too far.

One must never discount the human element.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 8/15/2008 6:59:54 PM >

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 7:00:33 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I have met a number of pleasure slaves who truly believe that, that is their sole function.  Who needs to work on a relationship if all you have to do is kneel and open various orifices?  No worries, the MASTER will take care of everything wrong.  Sheesh.
Pleasure and fantasy are fine.  But a relationship is still work.  Life is still work. 
This is not all about one person or the other.  It is not about serving the needs of one person and thereby get all your fulfillment.  There will always be good days and bad, grumbles and swoons, but if you work it right, one balances out the other nicely.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I don't think Leatherist was suggesting that having romantic ideals and fantasies is bad or necessarily unrealistic.

However, seeking an escape from reality and having a clearly fantasy unreasonable view of the adult world in which they are a spoiled pet but get the moniker of service slave- that's a problem.

And there's a heck of a lot of those out there.


As usual, you and I see pretty much eye to eye on the "princess pet" fantasy.

I never suggested that you can't have romance in this. Only that another word for service is work.
 
 And that is the worst four letter word a slacking "pleasure slave" can possibly want to hear spoken by a potential "Master"
 
 What the fuck!!!!! I have to DO something besides suck your cock and get played with? That's SO wrong!!!!!! 

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RE: Silly Romantic Fantasies - 8/15/2008 7:01:11 PM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		How did he take it too far?

I wasn't mistreated when I was in their collar. I just wasn't loved and adored like a "lover" but more like a pet ...

They identied as Gorean, by the way ... Not "old school" so that may be why I did not earn my collar. I begged for it and it was given to me. Once that happened, I was expected to learn and grow within the parameters they set for me. I think there was some miscommunication somewhere in there.


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