RE: INSTINCT

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Evility -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 3:55:15 PM)
I do think there are those amongst us who are driven by instinct but I think that far more often that drive is desire. The latter vastly outnumber the former.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 5:10:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Is there anyone else who feels their involvment in this bdsm world is instinctual? Prepared to say they cannot choose to do without it? Why is it brave to say you have no control over who you involve yourself with in what domains? My being kinky is part of who I am, just like being bisexual. But to say that my involvement in kink is instinctual is tantamount to saying a heterosexual male in incapable of rape because it's all simply "instinctual" and we cannot be held responsible for conscious choices if they are instinctual.

Prinsexx -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 5:42:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Is there anyone else who feels their involvment in this bdsm world is instinctual? Prepared to say they cannot choose to do without it? Why is it brave to say you have no control over who you involve yourself with in what domains? My being kinky is part of who I am, just like being bisexual. But to say that my involvement in kink is instinctual is tantamount to saying a heterosexual male in incapable of rape because it's all simply "instinctual" and we cannot be held responsible for conscious choices if they are instinctual. I don't know the answer to the question either. It was just one of those questions that could be asked. Like any rhetorical question really....a question wthout an answer. When i try to define what instinct is it's like i know i am a complex being with instinctual responses...fight and flight being one of them, panic attack being another, fear of heights, an unthinking but blinking response. It is choice that defines the line between sado-masochism and sexual sadism. And whilst there have been those who have said on other threads here that they believe we are all responsible for our actions maybe that is simply because we live in a world where the extremes of 'out-of-control' are safely locked behind bars and kept in padded cells. Just also thinking out loud as usual.

UR2Badored -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 5:45:49 PM)
Nature versus Nurture......the battle continues........could it be a combination of both with varying levels of each among individuals? Prinsexx, does the above theory apply to your question if at all? Do you think it is relevant or not? The study of instincts whether inborn or somehow environmently fostered is very interesting to me. Curious to see how this thread will spindle.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 6:42:22 PM)
I do not think we are always responsible for all of our actions, certainly not to the point of being able to be proven "wrong" morally. But when you talk about active involvement in kinky activity with another, then yes, responsibility is there.

UR2Badored -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 6:51:39 PM)
LA, I am puzzled......I was not even thinking about responsibility but the core reasoning for actions. I've always was under the premise that there were at least two underlying causes of our actions. Regardless, we are responsible for whatever reason we might do something. Sorry, I am not making much sense tonight . I'll try tomorrow to convey my thoughts better.

NeedingMore220 -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 7:00:57 PM)
I'm with you on the childbirth pain. I've had 3 myself, each different and each challenging in their own way. With the last one, the thoughtful doc pulled over the mirror to show me what I looked like with a head poking out of me. I was horrified and fascinated all at the same time - but instinct helped me to continue pushing when I was truly exhausted - it took over and the visual focused me in a way that was beyond my mental control. Is BDSM instinctual within me? I suppose it is, if being instinctual means it feels natural to me. But it doesn't control me in the way that the childbirth scenario did - it doesn't take over my life. So, yes, I could deny it if necessary. I would not be happy or fulfilled, however I would survive. Edited to clarify my thoughts a bit ...

Kalista07 -> RE: INSTINCT (8/12/2008 7:12:24 PM)
i would have to say that, like most human beings, i have instincts as well...My instincts are generally surrounding issues such as eating, breathing, self survival, etc. i'm not sure i can buy into my instincts being a justification for my choice of actions....For example...Do i have a desire to have a child? YES!! But ultimately there's a choice that i had to make...Is it fair or even right to bring a child into this world, exposing them to my genetics? i don't think so.... Reality is they say i can not have a child....However, because i know plenty of children born to supposed 'sterile' parents i chose to use birth control. i agree that my leaning towards my submission or slavery stems from my instincts to please people, to make people happy, etc. However, i think it's far to dangerous for me to even consider simply chalking up my choice of submission (who i submit to, how i submit, what that means, where that takes me) to my instincts. However, i believe as a person i have a certain amount of responsibility........ i have no idea if i'm even making sense now. Kali

Deliena -> RE: INSTINCT (8/17/2008 12:24:24 PM)
This is an interesting thread for me as i am not sure i fit the traditional submissive model (much as another who posted earlier). In most of life i am completely in control and in charge, however in my relationship i choose to be the submissive partner and am fulfilled by being there. For me it is as satifying to be good at my challenging job, gaining good scores in my classes for my degree and running several groups as it is to be at my Master's side ready to attend to whatever need or desire He may have at that time. Perhaps the only correllation between these groups of pleasing achievements is that i see them as such?

Prinsexx -> RE: INSTINCT (8/17/2008 1:50:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 i would have to say that, like most human beings, i have instincts as well...My instincts are generally surrounding issues such as eating, breathing, self survival, etc. i'm not sure i can buy into my instincts being a justification for my choice of actions....For example...Do i have a desire to have a child? YES!! But ultimately there's a choice that i had to make...Is it fair or even right to bring a child into this world, exposing them to my genetics? i don't think so.... Reality is they say i can not have a child....However, because i know plenty of children born to supposed 'sterile' parents i chose to use birth control. i agree that my leaning towards my submission or slavery stems from my instincts to please people, to make people happy, etc. However, i think it's far to dangerous for me to even consider simply chalking up my choice of submission (who i submit to, how i submit, what that means, where that takes me) to my instincts. However, i believe as a person i have a certain amount of responsibility........ i have no idea if i'm even making sense now. Kali i've come back to this thread because as i opened it and logged in i found it floating arounfd at the top again. To be honest since i first posted i think i've re-thought (AGAIN) in the last few days...well re-thought a few things. I don't submit very well at all. Whilst i am perfectly dulfilled doing 'service being asked to submit as in kneel, do this, do that, (very simple example used i know), that whilst i serve as if by instinct i do not submit well. I also think that i happen to be powerful in the jopbs i do because society accepts them as powerful formd of service....teaching, therapy.....the one thing i do which is my way of recomciling all aspects of me is writing and THEN the one i serve is my publisher who is the one giving out the contracts and dealines. I do know one thing thouhgh: i serve best in all areas when i am in a successful and instinctual relationship...and if part of that service is to submit then as part of serving my Master i will submit and do whatever is necessary even if that means bearing punishment, shaping and mulding. The baby pregnancy thing was at the deepest level of instinct for me and certainly at a level which invoved almost no thinking. I was totally amazed when i got home from hospital to see that I had put together a perfect nursery room, got nesty by instinct and cleaned and ironed the entired house lol and put everything to hand. By instince i guess i mean an innate capacity for knowing what to do without invovlving instruction or learning from observation. The bonding process with my babies i also felt as an overwhelming experience which no-one had ever taught me. I had absolutely no bonded feelings with my mother blass her and in her addiction and postwar trauma she certainly was unable to teach me anything very much of how to mother. That same bonding process begins once i consent to being owned. Then the feelings of being at one with begin. being owned is like a set of 'being parented' feelings. I feel child-like and protected.

DesFIP -> RE: INSTINCT (8/17/2008 6:14:55 PM)
I think I'm hard wired as a s type. But that's a far cry from saying I have no control. I don't obey every 'kneel bitch' email. I allow my brain to overrule my gonads in exactly the same way I allow my brain to overrule my instinctive fondness for sweets. Yes there's a half gallon of chocolate ice cream and no I'm not going to have any, I'll eat a yogurt and granola parfait instead.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: INSTINCT (8/17/2008 6:18:12 PM)
Prinsexx, can you email your kids asking them if they feel your mothering was instinctual and healthy for them? I'd love to see their responses.

KnightofMists -> RE: INSTINCT (8/17/2008 7:28:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sublizzie While I have an instinct to procreate I used various birth control methods to ensure that I did not have unwanted pregnancies. I have an instinct toward submissive behaviors but that does not mean that I allow every person I happen upon to do whatever they wish to my mind/body/soul. I think this covers it for me............. sure there is alot instinctive or genitic aspects of who we are. There is also alot of environmental and nuturing factors that make us who we are. However, I also have the ability to choose my actions. Just because I have an instinctive desire for women in a sexual way... doesn't mean that I rape everyone women to satisfy this instinctive desire. It is very true that some people can't control their instinctive desires.... for one reason or another. Hopefuly these instinctive desires are not going to be harmful to oneself or others. sublizzie doesn't just submit to every Dom that comes along... even thou that part of her instinctive nature makes her submissive. Well... I happen to be a Dom that might come along... and I am not going to be all Domly on her either or anyone else for that matter just because it's my part of my instinctive nature. I like her and many others... have the power to choose our actions and take responsibility for those actions. Unfortunately, many that do have the power of choice.... refuse to take responsibility and hid behind.... oh but it's instinctive. Some might indeed be brave to say that they don't have a choice ... but I think most are that do say that... are cowards looking to escape their personal responsibility for their actions.

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