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Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 4:54:58 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		Browsing the forums recently i have noticed a real trend for topics which seem to have peoples 'knickers in a twist.' For example.....
*use of the words edgy, dark, kinky, twisted.
*sub vs slave
*definition of a twue sub / slave
*peoples profile content
 
I mean honestly does it make a difference to anyone if i describe myself as dark?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i value slaves more than subs?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i define a twue slave as someone with two heads and a purple ass?
Does it matter to anyone if my profile contains no info, too much info, a list of ideals as long as my arm?
 
Things like the above really used to bother me when i first came to cm. Now they just go over my head, others definitions / views / opinions don't really matter to me personally.
 
The only definitions etc that count are surely your own and your partner / partners!!
 
*Sheesh now i have my knickers in a twist!!
 
 
 
 

< Message edited by missturbation -- 7/29/2008 4:56:59 AM >

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:03:25 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		I don't think the knicker twisting was over self labeling but instead it was about blanket labeling. In particular the 'dark twisted' thread asked why WE still use those words to describe OURSELVES. I would have had a totally different answer if she had asked about describing herself that way.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:07:37 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
 mean honestly does it make a difference to anyone if i describe myself as dark?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i value slaves more than subs?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i define a twue slave as someone with two heads and a purple ass?
Does it matter to anyone if my profile contains no info, too much info, a list of ideals as long as my arm?
 
Things like the above really used to bother me when i first came to cm. Now they just go over my head, others definitions / views / opinions don't really matter to me personally.
 
The only definitions etc that count are surely your own and your partner / partners!!
 
*Sheesh now i have my knickers in a twist!!
 
 


I usually don't get my knickers in a twist -- having been educated in the UK though, I always enjoy the expression. 

I think there are two things at work:  the first is that people do like to define and label themselves and I think everyone who wishes to interact with them should respect that right;  the second thing in my mind, however, is that while yes, how I define certain things and my boi is what should matter most to us, but with strangers some common language is actually necessary.

If I'm looking for a slave and define it a certain way, its good to let others know that, or at least have some common understanding of a generally recognized definition.

If you think a chair is a small fuzzy thing with paws, you're going to sit on my cat and I won't be happy.

So yes, in many ways, the definitions are only important between the two involved, but if you interact with others, it helps to have some common language.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:15:05 AM   
Missokyst


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Status: offline 		did you know if you put that twist in just the right spot... it can make for an interesting work day?

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:18:52 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

did you know if you put that twist in just the right spot... it can make for an interesting work day?



Wow, you ALMOST got me thinking about buying me some knickers.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:26:51 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

I don't think the knicker twisting was over self labeling but instead it was about blanket labeling. In particular the 'dark twisted' thread asked why WE still use those words to describe OURSELVES.

I agree. However i think it is about self labelling to a certain degree. For example if i say (to use one of my examples) 'a true slave is someone with two heads and a purple ass', i am then saying i am so. There are those out there who will then disagree with my self labelling and say 'no you can't be a twue slave because a twue slave is .....................'.
Yes the thread about 'dark twisted' was about WHY we use those words to describe ourselves, but as usual it ended up being abut judging those who use such words. Plus again if i choose to use those words about myself does it really matter to anyone else? It's like asking why i would choose words such as sarcastic, obnoxious, intelligent to describe myself.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:27:47 AM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		What I have found is that when someone describes him/herself a certain way, everyone else tends to apply a comparison to it.  In other words, if I say XYZ, then I must think that anyone who isn't XYZ is less-than, somehow.  But really, if I'm comfortable with who I am, I don't really care if someone else's opinion sees me as "less than."

Then again as myssokist says...maybe twisted knickers aren't so bad... heh.


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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:29:02 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
 mean honestly does it make a difference to anyone if i describe myself as dark?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i value slaves more than subs?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i define a twue slave as someone with two heads and a purple ass?
Does it matter to anyone if my profile contains no info, too much info, a list of ideals as long as my arm?
 
Things like the above really used to bother me when i first came to cm. Now they just go over my head, others definitions / views / opinions don't really matter to me personally.
 
The only definitions etc that count are surely your own and your partner / partners!!
 
*Sheesh now i have my knickers in a twist!!
 
 


I usually don't get my knickers in a twist -- having been educated in the UK though, I always enjoy the expression. 

I think there are two things at work:  the first is that people do like to define and label themselves and I think everyone who wishes to interact with them should respect that right;  the second thing in my mind, however, is that while yes, how I define certain things and my boi is what should matter most to us, but with strangers some common language is actually necessary.

If I'm looking for a slave and define it a certain way, its good to let others know that, or at least have some common understanding of a generally recognized definition.

If you think a chair is a small fuzzy thing with paws, you're going to sit on my cat and I won't be happy.

So yes, in many ways, the definitions are only important between the two involved, but if you interact with others, it helps to have some common language.


I absolutely agree and unfortunately there is NO generally recognized definition of words... I am a collector of dictionaries so that drives me nuts!! It just feels like a dictionary is only good for proper spelling anymore... and sometimes I don't think they get used for that!
 
Jewel

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:30:16 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

If I'm looking for a slave and define it a certain way, its good to let others know that, or at least have some common understanding of a generally recognized definition.

I agree there has to be some common ground. But what we see all too often is that my definition doesn't fit someone elses, so automatically my definition is wrong.
Understanding what someone defines as a slave is all good, telling them they are wrong for their definition is not.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:35:30 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

did you know if you put that twist in just the right spot... it can make for an interesting work day?



Yummy
 
quote:

What I have found is that when someone describes him/herself a certain way, everyone else tends to apply a comparison to it.  In other words, if I say XYZ, then I must think that anyone who isn't XYZ is less-than, somehow.  But really, if I'm comfortable with who I am, I don't really care if someone else's opinion sees me as "less than."

Then again as myssokist says...maybe twisted knickers aren't so bad... heh. 

I agree, nothing more to add there
 
quote:

I absolutely agree and unfortunately there is NO generally recognized definition of words... I am a collector of dictionaries so that drives me nuts!! It just feels like a dictionary is only good for proper spelling anymore... and sometimes I don't think they get used for that!
 
Jewel


I hear ya.
I've just moved to Manchester which is only about an hour and a halfs drive from where i come from. The language difference is unbelievable.
Life would be much simpler if we had very defined meanings for every word.






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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 5:42:43 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline
quote:

I mean honestly does it make a difference to anyone if i describe myself as dark? Does it make a difference to anyone if i value slaves more than subs? Does it make a difference to anyone if i define a twue slave as someone with two heads and a purple ass? Does it matter to anyone if my profile contains no info, too much info, a list of ideals as long as my arm?   Things like the above really used to bother me when i first came to cm. Now they just go over my head, others definitions / views / opinions don't really matter to me personally.


Well, other peoples opinions do matter to me, that is why i sit in front of a computer and post, - to get other's views and opinions. They matter in differant degrees. Since I don't know you from Adam, if your opinion is negitive, sounds stupid or hinky to me, or is downright offensive to me, i am more likely to ignore you than to get offended.

As to rather those things matter - if I am thinking of dating you, they matter to me a lot, but I can find them out, slowly. If you and I are becoming friends, they matter a little, but they can come out slow, as slow as they want, and that is fine. If I am in a nice chat or debate with you one the boards here, they matter only as much as they are releveant to the conversation, and the conversation matters not that much - it is interaction and diversion, not a primary effect in my life.
I obvliusly missed good drama on that thread and will have to go looking for it. However, I have gotten into threads in which i debate long - it gives me a chance to think things through, the enjoyment of helping others do the same, it is fun. sometimes i learn something here. I have made friends, and met Master here. that's about it, and more than i should have expected from an internet forum, so, good job, CM!
As to why things about other people matter to me - I have been wondering that myself lately, because some thing matter more than others.
Here's the one that has me wondering, lately-
Before I met Master, I lived in my hometown, worked, as i do now, in schoolage child care. One of the clients (one of the parents, that is) was a widower with a fine and energetic little brood. I liked him. We chatted. I would have asked him out, but, he was a client. But, I wouldn't have said no, had he asked me out.
Shortly after I met Master, and was therefore off the market, two things happened in rapid succession. First, his kid told a racist joke, (which she didn't understand WAS a racist joke, she was just repeating. She thought it was a Bible story. . I had to talk to Dad about it, of course, and his reaction made it perfectly clear - the man was a racist. Some other things came up shortly after that that only gave more evidence to the same conclusion. I have to say, I was sad.
Then, chatting with me one day, while his kids danced around him, his oldest mentioned that my children's father 'lived in heaven' with their mother. And I saw it happen in his eyes, he looked at me suddenly. Now, I get it. Being a widow is a tough road, raising kids alone is tough. Someone you already like as a person, your kids like them - you find out they share something that fundemental with you, yea, it could make you ask them out. His flirting got serious and continous. He was going to ask me out. I made sure to place things in the conversation to let him know I was now dating someone. But I was also sad - sad with the knowledge that, had he asked me out before I met Master, I would have said yes in a heartbeat, but, had I not been dating anyone now, I would have told him no. He was a racist, and that matters to me.
Now, bringing it back to my mind - recently, at a social club Master and I belong to, a casual friend there handed me a CD. I recognize the CD - it is the anti-semite conspiracty 'the Jews caused all the wars and 911 and Katrina' CD floating about the world. I didn't know he was an Anti-Semite till he handed me the CD, telling me how enlightened I was about to be. And it made me sad. But why does it make me sad? I am not going to date him. We see each other once a month, in the prescense of a lot of other people, for dinner. Why does it matter to me? But, it does. just a 'hmmmm....'

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 6:08:50 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

 had to talk to Dad about it, of course, and his reaction made it perfectly clear - the man was a racist. Some other things came up shortly after that that only gave more evidence to the same conclusion. I have to say, I was sad.

So you found out you were incompatible. Thats cool. Did you then go on to judge the guy, tell him he was wrong in his thought / opinion?
 
quote:

I didn't know he was an Anti-Semite till he handed me the CD, telling me how enlightened I was about to be.

Same question as above.
 
From what you have said in your post i'm guessing no. It's not about finding out your views are different, thats all good and needed. It's about then telling them their views are wrong.
Does it particularly matter to you that the first guy was a racist? Yes you were considering dating him. But you found out you were incompatible and moved on with little fuss.
Does it particularly matter the second guy was anti - semite? No, you will still have occasional contact with him.
You didn't get your knickers in a twist about it, you just realised not compatible, differing views and moved on.
 



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If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 6:50:05 AM   
tsatske


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Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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quote:

You didn't get your knickers in a twist about it, you just realised not compatible, differing views and moved on.


Exactly. The first situation, i could reassure myself that i didn't say anything only because it was work, but that is probably not true. I let the children i work with know my own beliefs and thoughts, in gentle ways, including supporting the oldest girl when she was crying because her dad was angry that she had her first childhood crush on a boy he refered to as a 'beaner', another student of mine. (racists are uniquely incapable of correctly SEEING race, even if they do think it the most important thing in the world - at least, ime, they are. That child his daughter had a crush on was clearly full blooded Itailain. But I didn't tell him that, either. I just patted his daughters back and kept my nose out of it.)
But, in truth, I will say little to my aquantance at our socail club, either. I will probably make a bland, quiet comment to let him know that we do not agree - just enough so that he knows not to keep barking up that tree, nothing all that judgemental, as you said. Probably mention a dear friend who is Jewish, or some such. Whatever. It really is none of my buisness who you want to ahte, beyond that it makes it unlikely that i would persue a deepening friendship.
but even that, I wonder why - about myself, i mean. Why this specific bigotry on my part? Why does it matter to me if someone is a racist. Beyond dating them - surely i'd be incompatable to date them. How could I take them home for Thanksgiving, if I couldn't trust them not to make racist comments in front of my beloved Black neices and nephews - or my belonved Hispanic nieces - or - well, you get the picture. But, just to be friends, who should it even matter to me? I have friends who believe all kinds of stuff I don't agree with, and I just don't care. I have friends who are very egotistical, i have friends who are smartasses, i have lots of friends of every ilk and kind that cause people to ask me why i would want them as friends - but i see their intrinsic value, beyond that which causes someone to ask me that.
So why this deep seated bigorty, on my part, against bigotry? Why is that so important to me? again, just a Hmmmm....

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 6:59:55 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
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Status: offline 		It doesn't matter to you, but you post a whining topic on it...........

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 7:14:26 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It doesn't matter to you, but you post a whining topic on it...........


As i said in my op yep i have my knickers in a twist about it
However im not whining about the issues themselves, im whining about why people feel the need to whine about them. BIG, HUGE, MASSIVE difference lmao

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 7:20:20 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

It doesn't matter to you, but you post a whining topic on it...........


As i said in my op yep i have my knickers in a twist about it
However im not whining about the issues themselves, im whining about why people feel the need to whine about them. BIG, HUGE, MASSIVE difference lmao


They are frustrated actors-and this is a great audience for drama whores.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 7:48:50 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Browsing the forums recently i have noticed a real trend for topics which seem to have peoples 'knickers in a twist.' For example.....
*use of the words edgy, dark, kinky, twisted.
*sub vs slave
*definition of a twue sub / slave
*peoples profile content
 
I mean honestly does it make a difference to anyone if i describe myself as dark?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i value slaves more than subs?
Does it make a difference to anyone if i define a twue slave as someone with two heads and a purple ass?
Does it matter to anyone if my profile contains no info, too much info, a list of ideals as long as my arm?


Short answer...yes and no.  ~g~  If you are interested in meeting someone with your profile as a starting basis, then it is.  If you wish them to get to know you through correspondence, phone and/or in-person contact and not through a profile, then what you put on your profile still makes a difference...it is what a lot of people see first or second and attracts/detracts in them getting to know you better.  I know that I have read posts from others on here before that have made me go to their profile to try and get a bit more insight of where they are coming from. 

Now, take away the profile. 
Then, as to your first question about whether it makes a difference about defining yourself as dark, it only makes a difference to those you are interested in being friends/play partners/serious committed partners with.  Casual acquaintances?  No.  They might see you as dark or they might see you as light but the term casual helps to define and...yes, label...their place in your life.  But for those who aren't casual, or who hope not to be, it does make a difference.  Dark can mean many things, even when confined strictly to the dictionary definition.  A person with dark moods and a dark attitude towards life and an affinity for dark play only can be wearing on someone with a more optimistic, more playful attitude.  But if they think that dark only refers to your style of play, when it doesn't, then they are in for a shock as you may be.
Your second question.  Yes, it makes a difference.  In the first place, it shows a tendency/willingness to judge others.  As I have stated elsewhere...even in one of your threads, I believe...we all make judgments.  Anyone who believes they do not is, in my opinion only, living at least partially in denial of themselves.  It can make a difference to submissives who may want to be your friend but do not want to be involved in conversations with you regarding slavery/submission as they already know where you come down on the issue and it isn't on their side.  It may make a difference to a potential dominant who seeks a slave but whose definition of slavery is totally askew from yours.
Third question.  You are being a bit facetious but yes, it makes a difference.  It gives an indication of your sense of humor and/or your cynicism and/or ...possibly (tongue in cheek here)...your level of delusion.

quote:

Things like the above really used to bother me when i first came to cm. Now they just go over my head, others definitions / views / opinions don't really matter to me personally.
 
The only definitions etc that count are surely your own and your partner / partners!!
 
*Sheesh now i have my knickers in a twist!!  


That would be nice if we didn't have to deal with the rest of society.  It also works well if we come with a built-in partner.  The rest of society has differing definitions of everything, as noted.  There are those that go strictly by Webster's or Merriam's or Oxford's definitions of things.  There are those who operate with the dictionary definitions as their base and then modify them to suit their profession, their hobby, their lifestyle.  I have no problem with modifying words to fit a particular niche as long as the modification remains true to the base, original definition. 
Where I have a problem is when someone wants to confuse abusive or domineering behavior with dominant behavior.  Where I have a problem is when someone changes the definition of submission to mean exactly what they want it to mean with no semblance of similarity to even the modified versions of the dictionary definition seen in D/s.  They twist it to mean what they think it SHOULD mean because it fits them, even though it disagrees with all constructs of submission...dictionary or D/s...then rationalize it on that wonderfully vague term of "individuality".  We all know it happens and at that point, definitions and what someone else thinks do make a difference. 

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/29/2008 7:49:42 AM >

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 7:59:28 AM   
RCdc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist
They are frustrated actors-and this is a great audience for drama whores.


If this is the case, then are you the whore, or the actor?
 
the.dark.

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 8:31:14 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		Great new pic, Dark!

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RE: Knickers in a twist!! - 7/29/2008 10:10:56 AM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		I love twisting knickers.

Especially when the result is panties in a bunch.
(This is not a veiled reference to those whom
enjoy feminine things, so don't ummm, errrrr
get your panties in a bunch?)

Everyone would be happy if everyone towed their line.

But as we all know, sometimes it's simply a line of bullshit.

Come on baby, let's do the twist.

chia* (the pet)

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