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Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:03:20 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I guess I'm like most daughters. I never want to believe my parents will pass. (And both of them are living, so this isn't an announcement of things like that). But in the past year, my mother has had 4 major surgeries. She has always been a vibrant woman (she's 73 but looks about 65) and she'd think I was silly for saying this, but I look up to her immensely (ok, I look down since she's a good 6 inches shorter than I am, but that's besides the point.)...

Anyway, right now, she's still recovering from rotator cuff surgery. It's a long process. And last night, when I went over to visit (I go many times a week), there, on the counter, was a letter from the hospital informing her that on the 30th of this month, she's now scheduled for yet another operation. She was asleep, and before, when she was napping and we'd come over, she'd wake up sometime during our visit and come out complaining that no one woke her up sooner. This time, she didn't bother to wake up at all - and we did try. It felt... odd.

And because I can't admit this anywhere else, I need to admit to someone someplace that I'm scared.

I've noticed lately that she just isn't as vibrant as she used to be. She's tired these days and because of her surgeries, she's gone from being constantly busy to relaxing more than anything else. Last year, we'd walk 3 miles every day. This year, going to the mall is something she is less inclined to do. This past November, she needed help getting up in the stands for my son's football game - something she never needed help in doing before. Before, she'd be a mad woman, cleaning all the time - right up till 5:30 at night when she and my father would stop what they were doing for the evening, and sit down to what they call "cocktail hour." All of us, my sister and myself and my brother when he was in town, would show up sometime around then with all our kids and the kids would have pop and we'd all sit down for a drink with them...then someone would come up with something for dinner or all the families would go their separate ways for whatever else was going on that evening. Now days, she has a cleaning lady cause neither she nor my father can get the stuff they used to do done. And well, traditions are changing.

What also scares me is that my father had polio as a child and is now dealing with post-polio syndrome. He walks heavily on two canes and still takes care of things around the house. He says my mother (who he loves beyond anything or anyone else in this world) is his feet. I have no idea what he'll do if she passes - or how he'll get around. I only live a few miles from his house so I know the job of being his feet will come to me, and it's a job I don't have a problem with at all... but it still worries me.

And I KNOW this is just her getting older and me coming to the realization that it's happening, but I just want to say, here and now...

I DON"T LIKE IT ONE BIT!!

SHE NEEDS TO JUST CUT IT OUT!!!
(while still remaining on this earth...stopping the aging process by passing away is NOT allowed.)

There... maybe now I'll feel better.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 7/27/2008 10:21:03 AM >
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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:13:47 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline 		i have been where you are, and it is awful. The problem with my parents... we spend the better part of our time together in a child/parent relationship in the beginning, then a parent/child relationship in the end, and an all too brief friendship in between the two. I wanted the friendship and was angry when the process of aging took it away.




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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:16:24 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		We've been fortunate to have a friends relationship along the way. I've always said that if my parents hadn't been my parents, I'd have still loved them as friends. It's just that there's never enough time - y'know?

Hopefully, this year will be one of those memorable ones for being so pain filled and then we'll move on and I'll have plenty more of them with my folks, but the realization that there's no place to go but to the end is really very terrifying to me.

And even more so for them.

juliet

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:25:56 AM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		I understand what you're feeling.  My father in particular is slowing way down due to severe heart disease and I truly wonder if he'll make it through the winter (he's always done worse in the winter.)  He naps a lot now, and is finding it more difficult to do his hobby (building/restoring old cars.) 

My mother is doing fairly well, but she too is slowing down. 

Both are in their early '70s, and I'm finding it hard to think of them not being here.

thornhappy

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:27:07 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		My mother died of a massive heart attack the day after my 27th birthday.  That was my introduction to mortality.  My life hasn't been the same since.  I've watched my father go through the mourning process.  He still misses her thirteen years later.  We all do.  I've also watched my father have a quadruple bypass and another surgery to repair a bulging, about to burst abdominal aortic aneurysim which was caught in time because of the need for the bypass.   He was lucky, but it made me realize that he was getting older too.  He'll be turning 80 in March and he still has the energy of a 60 year old.  I think it's that he's always had a huge love of life and the need to be happy and enjoy every moment that gives him his energy.  Getting older hasn't diminished that in him.  I strive to be like that.   It sucks when we realize that people we've thought of as being invincible really aren't.  

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 10:28:41 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline 		I think what bothered me the most this time around was that they weren't going to tell me about the surgery. We don't sit around waiting rooms worrying, but even though I'll be at work that day, I'm going to be waiting for that phone call saying she's ok.

And I think if I got a different kind of phone call without knowing about it all ahead of time, I'd be more than angry.

They're like that though - very private people. All they really want in times like that is each other - and I respect that. I just want to know she's ok and have time to hang out with her ahead of time.

I'm selfish like that.

juliet

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 11:04:09 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hello.

My 2 best friends now have no parents.  They did when we first met years ago.  

No one. I repeat, NO ONE, will ever love you as much as your mom. [for me that is] 

You need to lighten up a tad, and strive for happy "moments' with your parent.  Shut off the computer, the tv, the phone, -- often you cant plan these moments.

My mom moved out of state last year.  She followed my rule.  The rule was she must get market value for her house. [she gave away a house at fire sale price in 1985]  Anyhow my brother said Roger BETTER get her upstairs and attic all cleaned out or he will never do anything for me ever again.  Yes- I was mad- what gave him the right to make me the cleaning staff.  Anyhow- it was a blessing. As I got into it- I found all sorts of priceless memories.  AND- with mom downstairs, I had the opportunity to say "mom what was this?", and we would chat about all the neat stuff I found.  So I took maybe 5 boxes or memories to my home.  Knowing what there was to know since mom was alive to tell me the who where when of it all.  

[as long as I am on this I have to find receipts for every thing I ever did to my house- so this stuff is on the floor- gobs of it.  Any ideas on scanning old lettters?  Newspapers?  I cant get clear scans]

So- sort thru the attic.

My guess is they dont want to worry you. 

Next- and I wish I could get this for myself- but I cant. Get  all the funeral arrangements pre planned.  Not that it must be prepaid- but it makes things alot easier later.

Now when a parent dies... the child hords every item possible.  This is un-doable in the long term.  Bulky items are best sold or given away. As time goes on and you move and move and move- the memorabilia shrinks. It simply isnt possible to keep everything for the rest of your life.

On the flip side- dont toss everything out like a mad woman. Mom did this when dad dies. She carted out the junk- I stole in and sneaked it back in the basement door. 

Now as to the health- you need to know the blood work. so much of it is based on that.

I cant be of help on loss tho. When mom dies- I dont see much point in myself sticking aorund..... so I am no help there.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 11:11:58 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		This is a natural part of life. I haven't been through it so I can say little about it. We are strong people in the mind, but it is going to happen. Ma had a heart attack and a quad bypass and Dad has has two strokes. They are both still mobile and living independently, at this time.

When that changes, not if but when, we will see just how strong I am.

Old people are the only source of true history we have, suck them dry. They will love every minute of it. Cherish every moment while you can, because when it's gone it's gone.

I have been talking to my Parents more these days, and I like to talk about the past, they are the only source. But there will come a day when they die. Each of us has to deal with that because the only alternative is not desirable at all.

Though I do not fear death, I have to outlast my Parents. To do otherwise would be like kicking them in the face. So I must bear, pretty much what everyone else has to. When the time comes. Take every minute you can get, and when they start with "I remember in the old days...." shut up and listen. That is the truest history you will get.

Think I'll go see the olman now.

T

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 11:17:17 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		Juliet, I've been where you are right now.
 
Mom was ill for the last several years of her life - to the point that she prayed daily for the release of death for the last 3 prior to finally dying of various complications.  She was my best friend, my confidant, my partner in crime to go out to eat lunch or go shopping or whatever - and watching her decline was devestating in many ways.
 
Dad is still alive - but because of a stroke at 61, he's been in a nursing home for the past 2 years.  And watching His decline has been even harder to deal with, in many ways.  Watching him steadily become less and less the person I knew growing up, depended on, and looked up to - because now he's lucky if he can remember what day of the week it is from morning until afternoon, and taking care of himself Physically is simply beyond what he'll ever be capable of doing again - leaves this massive empty.
 
It's difficult because it's one of society's (and life's) biggest catch 22s ever.  You want to grieve for what has passed, and yet because they aren't dead yet, grieving isn't really an option.  And yet, you know that because of how life works, things will never go back to being the way they were, even a little bit.  I wish I could tell you that it gets easier - but I'm not gonna bother lying to you that way.  Cherish what time is left - let them Both know that if they Need you they know where you are, and that if they simply Want you around for something, they know where you are for That, Too - and then let them have the space they need to come to terms with things in their own mind and manner.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 11:25:39 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Oh, can you say abandonment issues?   and yes i have them too. When i first met my Sir, i just knew he was going to die and leave me.
and i realise that my parents are going to die before me - they are in their 80's, and good health for the shape they are in - mum survived a leaking cerebral aneurysm, and dad a severe heart attack (well, several).

They live on their farm, and both are very active. Dad has a garden i would give my eye teeth for - so big there are paths through it, and mum has a building where she grows native plants to plant along the creek - riperian delights, if anyone follows the adventures of Hyacinth Bucket. I would love to be as active as they are when i am that age.
But they are going to die before me, and i so don't dwell on this fact.  I try to see them as often as i can without going broke, and email frequently. When they die, i don't want to feel guilty that i could have been there more.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 11:54:22 AM   
julietsierra


Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

Oh, can you say abandonment issues?   and yes i have them too. When i first met my Sir, i just knew he was going to die and leave me.
and i realise that my parents are going to die before me - they are in their 80's, and good health for the shape they are in - mum survived a leaking cerebral aneurysm, and dad a severe heart attack (well, several).

They live on their farm, and both are very active. Dad has a garden i would give my eye teeth for -

so big there are paths through it, and mum has a building where she grows native plants to plant along the creek - riperian delights, if anyone follows the adventures of Hyacinth Bucket. I would love to be as active as they are when i am that age.
But they are going to die before me, and i so don't dwell on this fact.  I try to see them as often as i can without going broke, and email frequently. When they die, i don't want to feel guilty that i could have been there more.


Abandonment issues? I hardly think so. I have no qualms about my ability to survive their passing. I just have never had their age in my face so clearly before - and I don't like it one bit.

My folks and I have had our ups and downs, but through it all, we've always known we love each other and when the shit hits the fan, regardless of which direction it's blowing, have always been there for each other. My grown children are also there for them as we all are for them and vice versa. We've got a good family - even when I might complain about them.

But abandonment? More like mourning the loss of their independence now and worrying about what one of them going will do without the other - in addition to knowing I'll miss them very much - kinda what's to be expected with the death of a parent.

juliet

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 12:06:24 PM   
snappykappy


Posts: 616
Joined: 3/5/2005
Status: offline 		this is what i a m going through about informing my parents father is 90 and mother 88 and both are starting to be in frail health

they are back in the midwest and i am on the left coast

now my dilema if it is one i am really close to being put on the lung transplant list for a double lung transplant and my parents have no idea unless my younger brother spilled the beans about it because heck i might not even get a transplant in time and no need to worry them about it

lung transplants are very very good that complications might arise

i am on 2 sarc websites and one person has a friend who had a double lung and heart transplant and was alright for about 45 days and then there was a fungus which ate his right aorta and he had to had 4 operations in 4 weeks talk about a bummer

as far is i know he is still alive

if anybody wants to know about this dreadly disease of the autoimmune system i can forward u a instructional video link on it and also there are other autoimmune diseases which u can also view

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 12:16:30 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Juliet,

I know the process you're dealing with and it's not fun at all.  I lost my Dad 2 years ago to bone cancer and my mother is now aging more and more every day.

Here are some things I learned along the way, for what it's worth:

Say what you feel to them.  Love them and accept their love in whatever form they are able to give it.  Not everyone is capable of loving the way we want or need to be loved.  But often times that means we don't accept what they can give (not saying this is the case for you, personally). 

I remember like yesterday, the first time my Master and I met and he took me to breakfast and I was telling him about my Dad being ill (the cancer had not yet matastecized to his bones) and my Master said, "Spend time with your Dad.  Don't wait until later, because right now IS later."

Our parents have lived all of their adult lives without their kids running or managing it (in most cases).  Don't try to jump in and take control now.  They will do things that appall us.  They will make decisions that we think are entirely wrong and can't wrap our brains around.  We will get angry because their decisions may not always look like decisions that will keep them around for us longer than we want them to.  But it is their lives.  Respect their decisions, even if we don't like them, don't agree with them, and/or don't understand them.  Even if it means we're afraid they won't be around as long.  They get to make their own decisions about their lives, just as we make our decisions about our lives.  We can ask them to look at alternatives, but we must always allow them to maintain authority over their decisions.  As I often told my Dad, "I don't like the decisions you are making, but I understand it is your life and your decision, and I love you and accept it."

Be careful not to be co-dependent about them.  It's one thing to help them as they age.  It's another to become so much of a crutch that it's not good for anyone. 

It is painful to watch them age, and to know the inevitable.  Making the most of our time with them while they are still with us is a gift to both them and us.  My mother and I have become very close friends, where before we really didn't like each other.  She needed a lot of help when my Dad died, and I helped her but also stood back at times and let her figure things out.  She has grown stronger for it, and so have I.  Now we go on vacation together and hang out together and appreciate each other enjoy each other's company.  We talk about her aging process and how it scares both of us.  But we make the most of our "now" time, because it won't always be here.

Like I miss my Dad, I will miss her greatly when she goes.  But I'll have our love and friendship to keep with me long after she is gone, just like I do with my Dad.  It adds an element of beauty to the mourning process that I can't really explain.

Hugs you you... :)

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Good is the enemy of great.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 12:33:18 PM   
SummerWind


Posts: 314
Joined: 7/4/2007
Status: offline 		I've had a shitload of untimely deaths in my life.....I'm numb to it now.....I'm fascinated at how our human brains trick us into quickly forgetting how short life is.....

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 12:35:40 PM   
PrincessJ77


Posts: 372
Joined: 7/25/2008
From: point A
Status: offline 		All you can do is love them now.   My heart goes out to you, but be lucky you still have both parents.  I miss my mum every day.  Hugs, dear & I think I have to call my pops now.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 12:41:46 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

I think what bothered me the most this time around was that they weren't going to tell me about the surgery. We don't sit around waiting rooms worrying, but even though I'll be at work that day, I'm going to be waiting for that phone call saying she's ok.

And I think if I got a different kind of phone call without knowing about it all ahead of time, I'd be more than angry.

They're like that though - very private people. All they really want in times like that is each other - and I respect that. I just want to know she's ok and have time to hang out with her ahead of time.

I'm selfish like that.

juliet


stop calling yourself selfish....with all that you are doing with and for your parents, selfish is not a word that fits you.

You might want to start trying to deal with the above issue now, because it sounds as if it is a real possibility that it can occur. They may exclude you from what is going on with them... feeling they are protecting you.
My mom did it with me. I was not prepared emotionally and my first thoughts were a bit on the angry side. I felt she excluded me from her life. It took awhile to see that her actions were noble.

And i know this is no comfort to you, but the pain you are in right now is going to make you stronger for what lies ahead.


< Message edited by sirsholly -- 7/27/2008 12:47:59 PM >

_____________________________

PICKED UPON
TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
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CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 2:11:45 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		It is a rude awakening to what we all know will happen, but forestall thinking about.  I watched my um's, pretty young, watch me change from a dynamo who played and worked hard, to a woman in a bed running um programs, agency programs and home schooling.  It got worse and then better and will get worse again.  I think they are as prepared as one can be, but even then, I think it will hit them hard. 

I know what it is like to lose the abilities you once had and to want to protect my now adult children.  I promised long ago to be honest with them so that their fears would be lessened somehow.  Sometimes when we want to be private about it... we are dealing with our own struggle with what is happening.  We are not able to do what we once did, but we remember it well and it is hard to accept, even though we might have seen it coming.  We miss those walks and the malls, we miss even driving somewhere or being able to climb a mountain.  It may not be that they are trying to hide things to protect you, but that they too are dealing with it and maybe at times simply have so much to deal with, that they can't decide one more thing.  You get tired, ya know?

All I can say is you can't go wrong with love.  Just love and fill up on one another and don't forget to laugh with them.  Laughter will take you for a few mintues outside of it all.  Cry... and don't be afraid to cry with them when the time comes for that.  Everyone is hurting in some way and the more we can express with each other, the easier it is to heal in it, through it and when things do end.

My heart goes out to you, as I had a mother too and know what it was like with us.  But the moments we had while she was in the midst of her struggle... were amazing and keep me happy that I had the pleasure of being her daughter and her friend.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 2:23:17 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		aging to death- IMO is better then a sudden death such as a plane crash or car accident.

for me it is hard to hit a balance if being attentive- and intrusive.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 2:51:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My father is 81 and is worse off every time I see him, which is about once every two weeks. Physically he's doing well, but you can't trust him to remember where he is about a third of the time. He now needs a full time caregiver just to make sure he doesn't wander out and get lost.

It's horrible.

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RE: Mortality - 7/27/2008 3:35:56 PM   
NeedingMore220


Posts: 615
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		I sympathize with you, Juliet.   My mom started having heart problems about ten years ago and had open heart abouo two years ago when she was only 62.  She can't do as much; had to retire on disability; gets out of breath walking from the car into a restaurant and is bored silly at times.  I have her up for a visit often - the kids keep her mind occupied and she enjoys the liveliness of the household for a bit, then goes home to her peace and quiet.

It makes me sad for her. 

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