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download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 5:50:02 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/technology/27digi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=technology
wow- when I was in school I recall high prices for text books...then the frequent "new editions"  which meant no used books could be bought. 

So based on this article- every file is a pay file and one that is to be paid for each time.  it sorta makes the current model of the Internet unworkable in its current form.

??
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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:07:36 PM   
SilverWulf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/technology/27digi.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=technology
wow- when I was in school I recall high prices for text books...then the frequent "new editions"  which meant no used books could be bought. 

So based on this article- every file is a pay file and one that is to be paid for each time.  it sorta makes the current model of the Internet unworkable in its current form.

??



Nowhere in the linked article did I see anything that makes the current internet suddenly obsolete. 

How did you come to this conclusion?

The whole textbook racket is BS, no argument there. 

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:11:10 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...due to copywrite and intelectual "property"  sound, pics, movies, articles, are files that one can not use with out perinssion or payment.

a good example of this is when folks were listening to radio out of state over the net- and it was pulled due to the commericals as they are to reach the demographics.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:23:10 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		From personal experience, as I am going back to school this fall.  I am buying many of my books as e-copies, I don't have to pay each time I use the book, I am buying a license to use it. 

I think that the publishers of these things are entitled to have the copyrights upheld, and to make a profit from publishing the materials if there is enough demand.

Why should these materials be provided free, especially if the owner of the material is charging for it?  If there were no digital copies, one would still have to pay for the books at the bookstore (regardless of if they are new or used).

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:25:53 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		what about when the edition is replaced?

then your ecopy is worthless.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:30:30 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		I am not going to be in the class forever, so if the edition changes mid class, I do not have to worry about it.

I mean this is akin to assuming that when you buy a dvd, that if and when they release a directors cut you should be entitled to that for free, because your copy is now somehow worthless.

I will also point out that some of the publishers out there, do provide updates to content at no additional cost if there is a change in the text.  It all depends on the licensing that the publisher offers.



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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 6:58:02 PM   
SilverWulf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

...due to copywrite and intelectual "property"  sound, pics, movies, articles, are files that one can not use with out perinssion or payment.

a good example of this is when folks were listening to radio out of state over the net- and it was pulled due to the commericals as they are to reach the demographics.



Copywrite laws have been around far longer than the internet.  Everything you see on a daily basis is licensed, someone paid for it and it is being used in the manner which the license allows. 

Still not sure where you get that the internet will never be the same.

P2P file 'sharing' has and always will be illegal. 

Despite popular belief, there is no such thing as public domain. (ok, there are exceptions, but very very few ... military, government, etc...)

Anyone scanning and uploading a text book is breaking the law.  Anyone downloading that text book is breaking the law.

If you buy an e version of a text book you will be licensed to use it for the period specified.  Hopefully, and likely, you will be finished with that class by the time it is updated.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:23:54 PM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		under that logic having a friend over to listen to LPs and 45 RPMs  then too would be illegal, as the friend may or may not be "licensed"

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:27:39 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

under that logic having a friend over to listen to LPs and 45 RPMs  then too would be illegal, as the friend may or may not be "licensed"


No but making copies of those and giving them to your friend would be.



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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:31:13 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

under that logic having a friend over to listen to LPs and 45 RPMs  then too would be illegal, as the friend may or may not be "licensed"


No but making copies of those and giving them to your friend would be.




Why does everything in contemporary society have to be "managed" AND 'monetised" ?

Do you realize a life-form can be patented in the USA?

What do you say to Monsanto that twists the genes so as to make food poisen unless the code is unlocked?   

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:32:03 PM   
SilverWulf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

under that logic having a friend over to listen to LPs and 45 RPMs  then too would be illegal, as the friend may or may not be "licensed"


Having a friend over would fall under 'private home use'. 

If you were to charge your friend for the priveledge of listening, then yes that would be illegal.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:37:13 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Why does everything in contemporary society have to be "managed" AND 'monetised" ?

Do you realize a life-form can be patented in the USA?

What do you say to Monsanto that twists the genes so as to make food poisen unless the code is unlocked?   



Why should people feel entitled to use the work of others for free?  Even if we got rid of a monetary system, one would expect some sort of barter for services or goods.

I do not see how Monsanto and it's business practices have any bearing on copyright law.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:57:23 PM   
asyouwish72


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Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline 		 This is slightly off-topic for the subject at hand, but I wanted to throw out a counterpoint to this discussion. While traditional textbooks are copyrighted material belonging to publishers (and as such, are never going to be available for free legally), there is a tremendous amount of material from the world of higher education that IS free to the public and is often absolutely first rate.

The prime example that springs to mind is the Open Courseware program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They have digitized the lecture notes and supporting material from many of their undergraduate and graduate classes and have made them freely available to the general public:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm

Good stuff.

< Message edited by asyouwish72 -- 7/26/2008 7:58:13 PM >

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 7:57:49 PM   
daddysblondie


Posts: 181
Joined: 3/17/2007
Status: offline 		Well, I completed my Bachelor's degree about three years ago now and the school I was attending at the time was switching over from paper textbooks to e-books.
Not everyone was thrilled with them. I certainly found them to be a bit of a pain in the ass in some respects, but quite handy in others.
However, the biggest selling point for us with the e-books was that they were considerably less expensive than traditional textbooks.
To your comment about revisions, schools still utilize e-books in classes the same way they would a traditional text book. E-books are typically downloaded at the beginning of a class and that edition of the book would be used until the end of the class. Again, the same way a school would implement a text book change with a traditional text book.
E-books aren't the end of the internet or even regular books... not anytime soon anyway.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 9:09:25 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how you get that every time you use it, you have to pay. The article clearly stated that when you pay for it, you get access for the entire term. And since there is no printing or shipping cost, I imagine the file is significantly cheaper than a hard copy would be.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 9:29:26 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Not necessarily--many LPs are now out of copyright.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

under that logic having a friend over to listen to LPs and 45 RPMs  then too would be illegal, as the friend may or may not be "licensed"


No but making copies of those and giving them to your friend would be.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: download textbooks? - 7/26/2008 11:33:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

I'm not sure how you get that every time you use it, you have to pay. The article clearly stated that when you pay for it, you get access for the entire term. And since there is no printing or shipping cost, I imagine the file is significantly cheaper than a hard copy would be.


That's how it was when a couple of the classes I was in offered e-books.  We had a choice of ebooks or hard copy texts.  There are plusses and minues to both.  They're certainly a lot more convenient in many respects, saved paper, costs, and storage space.  The student buys a license for use of the e-book for a given period of time.  Much cheaper than the actual text but then you can't highlight and right notes in it, etc.  You're not actually buying the book; you're buying the right to read it online for a given period of time.

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/27/2008 3:11:54 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

what about when the edition is replaced?

then your ecopy is worthless.


If I buy a book at the college bookstore and that edition is later replaced, then my copy is worthless. What difference does it make, if it's an ebook or leather?

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RE: download textbooks? - 7/27/2008 3:46:25 AM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: asyouwish72

This is slightly off-topic for the subject at hand, but I wanted to throw out a counterpoint to this discussion. While traditional textbooks are copyrighted material belonging to publishers (and as such, are never going to be available for free legally), there is a tremendous amount of material from the world of higher education that IS free to the public and is often absolutely first rate.

The prime example that springs to mind is the Open Courseware program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They have digitized the lecture notes and supporting material from many of their undergraduate and graduate classes and have made them freely available to the general public:

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm

Good stuff.


Okies I have a new place to read.
Thank you for posting that link, I was just needing something new and interesting today.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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RE: download textbooks? - 7/27/2008 6:45:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Then the library would be  in violation.

On ebooks- I cant concentrate and stay focused.  Besides you can always run the printer.

of course some things are worth paying for as they never would have happened.
consunmer reports model website- free to see some stuff- pay to see other - ok that works.
motely fool news letter- is just a comeone to buy the site.   so that model is simply spam.

keep in mind what the telecoms want to do.

consider how the RIAA ripped off many artists.  

so- cut out the middle man. in fact- if I could buy my junk driectly from China I could cut out the Walmart middleman.
same thing with Mattel toys.

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