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power... control.... - 7/25/2008 5:50:15 PM   
nhite


Posts: 85
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		i'm curious as to people's view on these...  do you think they are two words for the same thing?   do you think they're different things?  can you have one without the other?   given the intangible nature, how do you get them/feel them taken?

kinda anything you want to speak to
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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 6:05:02 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		Power and Control are two VERY different things.

Think of the mafia.  There is an old Don and his young enforcer.  One has control, the other has power.

Power is something you contain.  No one can take it.   If you don't have it, you can't get it.

Control is something others allow you.  They can remove it from you, but they can not take it for themselves.  They can only get it for themselves if someone else gives it to them.

Power plus control can do wonderful things.  Power without control tends to do spectacular failures.  Control without power tends to do significant small things, but they can build up over time.

Even the stupid can have power.  Control takes more brains to use. 

< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 7/25/2008 6:11:32 PM >

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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 6:08:30 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nhite

i'm curious as to people's view on these...  do you think they are two words for the same thing?   do you think they're different things?  can you have one without the other?   given the intangible nature, how do you get them/feel them taken?

kinda anything you want to speak to

My quick response is to say that i blieve power is a potential....
and control is one waym one of the dynamics, in which that potential manifests itself. This way if looking at it fits almost any context from the purely mechanical to the physical, emotional and meta-physical. The term dynamic descrbes the relationship between the two or more potentiaites of the power.


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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 6:11:37 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Consenting deference and pure control are different animals.
 
Goerge Orwell put it very nicely in a conversation between two charachters in his book "1984"
 
Here is the entire chapter link for context.
 
http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/books/1984-3-03.htm
 
This excerpt is what struck me as the most interesting.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
‘I told you, Winston,’ he said, ‘that metaphysics is not your strong point. The word you are trying to think of is solipsism. But you are mistaken. This is not solipsism. Collective solipsism, if you like. But that is a different thing: in fact, the opposite thing. All this is a digression,’ he added in a different tone. ‘The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.’ He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: ‘How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?’

Winston thought. ‘By making him suffer,’ he said.
‘Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.
 
 

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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 9:26:40 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		Someone can control me simply by being stronger than me (either physically, emotionally, legally, or otherwise) and forcing me to do something.  I allow someone that I trust to have power over me, to choose to do what they wish simply to please them.  A Dom/me with no self control, no inner laws of what is right and wrong in a given situation, can be dangerous. 


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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 9:27:48 PM   
Leatherist


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

Someone can control me simply by being stronger than me (either physically, emotionally, legally, or otherwise) and forcing me to do something.  I allow someone that I trust to have power over me, to choose to do what they wish simply to please them.  A Dom/me with no self control, no inner laws of what is right and wrong in a given situation, can be dangerous. 


 
Narcissistic sociopaths.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 9:36:18 PM   
mistressadj


Posts: 17
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline 		Thinking of electricity demonstrates the difference between power and control.  Electricity is a powerful force.  When it is controlled, it is useful.  When it is out of control, it is deadly.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 10:19:19 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		There is a large difference in those concepts.  Though one can have the power of control.

There is also a large difference between power and authority.  Though one can have the power of authority.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/25/2008 10:20:22 PM   
HopeLost


Posts: 80
Joined: 2/7/2007
Status: offline 		thank you Leatherist for posting the orwell. now i feel the need to read something i always wanted to.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 2:29:24 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		Some time ago I'd written that in my view a woman is like a river, with immense power, a natural nurturer she brings life-giving water to the land, she creates a home and habitat, unpredictible, with deep currents, beautiful, wild and free.

Her Master then is the dam-builder.  He contains her power and controls her.  That control doesn't diminish her nurturing properties but creates even more purpose, he uses her power to redirect it into productive energy, creates a watershed for the drought, a lake for recreation, protection from her potential destruction.  Thereby power and control is used in cooperation to create a something that was greater than before.

It's early in the morning and I haven't had coffee yet, so please pardon me if the analogy isn't working.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 6:17:29 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Consenting deference and pure control are different animals.
 
Goerge Orwell put it very nicely in a conversation between two charachters in his book "1984"
 
Here is the entire chapter link for context.
 
http://www.netcharles.com/orwell/books/1984-3-03.htm
 
This excerpt is what struck me as the most interesting.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
 
‘I told you, Winston,’ he said, ‘that metaphysics is not your strong point. The word you are trying to think of is solipsism. But you are mistaken. This is not solipsism. Collective solipsism, if you like. But that is a different thing: in fact, the opposite thing. All this is a digression,’ he added in a different tone. ‘The real power, the power we have to fight for night and day, is not power over things, but over men.’ He paused, and for a moment assumed again his air of a schoolmaster questioning a promising pupil: ‘How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?’

Winston thought. ‘By making him suffer,’ he said.
‘Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.
 
 


Ah, you hit the nail on the head for me (or at least Orwell did). I don't consider myself a masochist, but more of a "control slut", I guess. So while I don't enjoy the suffering, I LOVE being controlled by a woman, and the fact that she can inflict suffering is the proof of her power over me.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 7:22:39 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I have noticed this trait in more than one submissive person.
 
The paradox of being unsatisfied unless the power was proven by the ability of the Owner to take these people to places where they had to deal with things that would test them greatly.
 
 But that when they came through the midst of those flames-both were sure of who they were.
 
 And of what they were capable.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 7:57:27 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nhite

...  do you think they are two words for the same thing?   do you think they're different things?  can you have one without the other?   given the intangible nature, how do you get them/feel them taken?



they are different in my world.

Power is "having" the ability to take action to achieve desired results.

Control is about "exercising" that ability to acheive the desired results.

They are very similar words but have distinct meanings to me.  In having the Ability.. one must have the control to exercise that ability.  Therefore control is a part of power.  However... if one doesn't have the ability (power) in the first place... no amount of control can be exercised to achieve the desired results.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 8:59:49 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		My thoughts (YMMV)

Power:  The fictional belief that you can make someone else do something.  This is what people who don't really understand human behavior seek.  Due to it's ephemeral nature, it is a weak tool at best, only working so long as the person being led believes in the power.  Power is the life ring that poor leaders grasp at, trying to save themselves from drowning.

Control:  See also, power.  When one foolishly believes he/she has power, then they seek to control.

Leadership and influence are real concepts that actually really work in the real world.  These are the tools that put a man on the moon or change the world.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 9:09:01 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		I think the fact that we see so many discussions around here defining the differences between power, control, and authority means that there really isn't much difference between them in the minds of most people, so as a practical matter when it comes to a dynamic between two (or more) people it really doesn't matter what the hell you want to call it.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 2:53:26 PM   
bbwsubbynyc


Posts: 11
Joined: 6/1/2008
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nhite

i'm curious as to people's view on these...  do you think they are two words for the same thing?   do you think they're different things?  can you have one without the other?   given the intangible nature, how do you get them/feel them taken?

kinda anything you want to speak to


IMO, A person can have power and still not have control.  i.e. a CEO of a fortune 500 company can have power by being the only one who can authorize things or spread his/her influence around, but this doesn't mean he/she controls everything that happens in his/her company.

Likewise a Dominant can have power over a sub, but the Dom/me can't really control what the sub feels or even whether or not the sub stays with that Dom.

Edit: It could easily be the reverse as well.  :-)


< Message edited by bbwsubbynyc -- 7/26/2008 2:55:39 PM >

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 5:45:33 PM   
MidMichCowboy


Posts: 665
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline 		Control is used to express "mastery" or "proficiency"
Power is a measure of a person's ability to control the environment around them, including the behavior of other persons.
So, power is the force but control allows one to become a master at using the power, to get the most out of it.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 6:28:31 PM   
cpK69


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Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
As they pertain to people, two different things.
Power can give you the potential to have control; where as, control itself is power.
Power is transferable, control is not.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 8:26:10 PM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Here's my $.02:

Power is the ability to influence the actions and/or thoughts of others. It is potential. It has several possible sources, and it is not imaginary.

Control is a result of the successful, relatively extreme, exercise of power. It is more than potential, it implies action.

I've seen some people say that power and control are imaginary, because you can't truly force someone do something that they don't want to do. That's ridiculous. Power is about influence, and control is a strict use of influence. Force isn't necessarily involved. Getting someone to change their mind, to cause them to act or think differently than they otherwise would, that's influencing them, that's using power.

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RE: power... control.... - 7/26/2008 8:36:20 PM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		Semantics, they're fuzzy.

Physics, not so fuzzy. 

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