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God Damn Yankees! - 7/13/2008 9:56:06 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		A bit of truth in this essy, perhaps?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wilson/wilson12.html

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 11:43:32 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Great article.  If you ever get a chance I recommend Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America by Jim Webb.  It's takes some interesting looks at how the settlment patterns in the North and South shaped American culture.  It points out of lot of the things mentioned in this article.  The Northern colonies were settled by Puritans initially.  The Middle colonies were settled by businessmen and traders, and the Southern colonies were settled by.....well, criminals. 

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 12:24:42 PM   
DomKen


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Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		That was some of the most bigoted drivel I've ever read. By his thesis the Yankees voted for the American while the Americans voted for the Yankee in 2000. Which does sort of torpedo the whole thing.

Also only the smallest and newest of the three southern colonies, Georgia, had a large percentage of convicts amongst its population. The Carolinas had a very mixed population including a whole slew of different groups seeking religious freedom.

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 1:09:52 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That was some of the most bigoted drivel I've ever read. By his thesis the Yankees voted for the American while the Americans voted for the Yankee in 2000. Which does sort of torpedo the whole thing.

Also only the smallest and newest of the three southern colonies, Georgia, had a large percentage of convicts amongst its population. The Carolinas had a very mixed population including a whole slew of different groups seeking religious freedom.

Well, Ken, ya gotta admit, the Puritans have pretty much perma-fucked this country.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 1:21:46 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

....and the Southern colonies were settled by.....well, criminals. 


But Oglethorpe's charter for the Georgia colony actually banned lawyers from settling there.

In fact he settled Georgia with debtors, which is not considered 'criminal' under today's standards.

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 1:33:25 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		True Alumbrado, and I know that the Southern colonies weren't entirely made up of transported convicts.  My ancestors were Scots-Irish and settled in Appalachia.  Although not criminal, I would consider that particular population of colonists to be more independent and outcast from the other groups settling in North America in the 18th Century. 

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 1:46:06 PM   
slvemike4u


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Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Pure drivel....lacking in its entirety any objective quality's...Particularly enjoyed the section crediting Jefferson with saving the Constitution a document he personally found odious and worked tirelessly against it...till he was convinced by Hamilton of the advantage to be found in a political solution ..the Capitol moved to it's present location and Jefferson "flipped-flopped his support...Anything can be compromised it would seem...up until this accomadation Jefferson saw the Constitution as a power grab by the Federalist's and the work of those same so called Yankee's...this article essentially abandons any claim,or whiff of truth right there..

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 1:50:59 PM   
SummerWind


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Status: offline 		If the pitching would just stay healthy and A-Rod would ever get a clutch hit......

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 2:15:40 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SummerWind

If the pitching would just stay healthy and A-Rod would ever get a clutch hit......
The pitching is fine ,we need health from the positition players,in particular the outfielders...giving Giradi much more flexibility when filling out the line-up card...these Yanks will play in Oct.like their brethren before them for the last 12 years...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 2:22:09 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		What a weird hijack. On b.com it has happened more than once that a thread will start out, say, bashing immigration policy and end up arguing about the width of WWII Russian tank treads, I kid you not. That's one of our standing jokes over there.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 5:11:29 PM   
jlf1961


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Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Prior to the Civil War, or the war of Northern Aggression, the economy of the United States was primarily industrial in the north, agricultural in the south.

However, that began to change with the invention of the cotton gin, and the south began to sell more cotton to overseas buyers than northern buyers. 

After the British Empire freed their slaves in the 1830's with no financial loss to slave owners, the southern states began to see a way to end slavery and allow the south to build an industrial base.

Using the process of Eminent Domain, the federal government could have bought all the southern slaves and then declared slavery illegal.  The planters in the south would not have lost financially, however the large banking interests in the north would have suddenly had no hold on the southern planters, since the loans would have been paid off in full.

The remaining funds would have been used to industrialize the south, thus creating a dual market economy in the southern states, something the north would not have survived.

Thus, every time the suggestion was made in congress, it was yelled down by the northern states which benefited from the inequality in financial solvency.

At the time of the civil war, which began with an act of Northern Aggression, which was the move to reinforce the Garrison at Fort Sumpter, the southern states were clearly nearing financial ruin.

By declaring the act of secession to be an act of sedition,  the northern states attempted to justify the  civil war.  The problem is that there is the constitution  does not  stop a state from leaving the  Republic, one of the basic ideas of a republic is the freedom to dissolve ties with the central government.

Thus, the southern states are illegally occupied, under international law of the 1860's and the present international law.  


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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 5:25:22 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		jlf1961 thankyou ever so much for that completely skewed and biased rendition of American history ,learned no doubt at the pa or granpa's dinner table...For myself I prefer the actual and factual reading of America's rich history,but to each his own....I ahve the actual and balanced version why shouldn't you have your fantasy's

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 5:28:46 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That was some of the most bigoted drivel I've ever read. By his thesis the Yankees voted for the American while the Americans voted for the Yankee in 2000. Which does sort of torpedo the whole thing.

Also only the smallest and newest of the three southern colonies, Georgia, had a large percentage of convicts amongst its population. The Carolinas had a very mixed population including a whole slew of different groups seeking religious freedom.

Well, Ken, ya gotta admit, the Puritans have pretty much perma-fucked this country.

The Puritans and their fellow extreme religionists have done much harm and much good for this nation. Their insistance on legislating morality is a terrible legacy we must strive to overcome but they are also the ones who brought true functioning democracy to these shores.

Anyway the article in question conflates many groups that made up the northern colonies. The merchants of Boston and New York had virtually nothing in common with their rural neighbors. Just as they had nothing in common with the utopians of William Penn's colony or the scottish presbytereans and dutch farmers in New Jersey or the wannabe manor lords of Maryland and Virginia.

To complain that somehow Yankees are foes of the common people neglects that most Yankees are regular people just like people in the rest of america and in many instances far more democratic. The town meeting style of government is virtually unknown outside of rural New England and what could be more democratic than a true direct democracy?

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 7:44:50 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Oh, I don't disagree with you, Ken. I don't agree with much of the author's interpretation of history. I think, however, that he does make a good point that the Anglo-Saxons have had an influence on America's development far in excess of their numbers. I had another point but it went flying off into the ether. So it goes.



_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 10:29:33 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

jlf1961 thankyou ever so much for that completely skewed and biased rendition of American history ,learned no doubt at the pa or granpa's dinner table...For myself I prefer the actual and factual reading of America's rich history,but to each his own....I ahve the actual and balanced version why shouldn't you have your fantasy's


Sure you do Mike.  What Jlf said has been argued by many serious historians for quite awhile now.  All history is skewed and biased including the ONE version you seem to think is the definitive version of what happened.  If you have only exposed yourself to one source of information for history, than you have no grounds to criticize others for their views of a very complicated event in American history. 

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RE: God Damn Yankees! - 7/14/2008 11:50:20 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		My post slaveboy should have stopped at pointing out the obvious slant and bias of jlf1961 .Never should have  added that last line,you are right, there is no one version .There were a multitude of issues and a cast of thousands that inexorably propelled this country to the cataclism of Civil War,and to suggest I had the one true truth was foolhardy.This is all true and good ,but none of it changes the fact that the post by jlf was totally one sided and slanted ...historians arguing scenarios and theorys does not equal one true truth either, jlf posted one viewpoint has historical fact..it is a belief and a way of looking at things it is not fact

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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