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Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 8:43:28 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		I'm going to be quitting my job soon to move to a new location. Sir and I are getting married and I'm moving in with him. I was told by my direct boss that by law, the only thing a past employer can tell a prospective employer is whether or not the person works or worked there. I get along well with my direct bosses and co-workers as well as my clients. In fact, I get along with almost everyone except for the human resource manager. Unfortunately, I think that's the person most prospective employers talk to. Is my direct boss right in saying I shouldn't worry? Is there really such a law?

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 7/13/2008 8:44:32 AM >

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 8:49:22 AM   
Arpig


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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 8:56:32 AM   
CalifChick


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Status: offline 		No, although generally to cover their asses, most employers WON'T say anything except to verify length of employment.  They don't want you suing them for libel/slander/whatever (depending on whether it's verbal or written).

When I have had a good employee, one that I would hire again, I am happy to discuss anything about them with their prospective employers, and I tell the employee that, and ask them if it's okay.  For people I would not hire again, I tell them I will verify employment dates in writing only, and to have their prospective employer fax something over.

Cali


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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 9:05:26 AM   
xxblushesxx


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Status: offline 		There are ways of answering things without getting in trouble, and which can be just as devasting, if not more so, than an outright slam.

If you want to know what he's going to say, have a friend call and pretend to be a prospective employer. Have him/her ask a few probing questions regarding attendance, attitude, and if he/she would hire you again. You'll have a better idea of what to expect then. If it's too bad, perhaps not even put this as a reference.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 9:10:15 AM   
defiantbadgirl


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Status: offline 		What if I wait to quit that job until I find another in the city I'm moving to? Do employers say negative things about employees that still work for them or would they refrain from that even if they didn't like the employee because it would make the company look stupid (if she's so bad why is she working there now)?

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 9:43:18 AM   
SoulPiercer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx
If you want to know what he's going to say, have a friend call and pretend to be a prospective employer. Have him/her ask a few probing questions regarding attendance, attitude, and if he/she would hire you again. You'll have a better idea of what to expect then. If it's too bad, perhaps not even put this as a reference.


This approach can do more harm than good, depending on the industry you work in.

While employers often tell you that as long as you give 2 weeks notice (or whatever standard they use), you'll be eligible for re-hire, that does not necessarily mean they will allow you to remain for that 2 week period.

So .. your friend calls HR and speaks with HR person whom you don't get along with .. within a few hours you're escorted to the door because HR is concerned that you may be leaving and taking "priviledged information" along with you.

To answer the original question: HR can verify employment dates.

Having gone through this myself .. AND been the one on the hiring end as well.. I can tell you that very few employers actually spend the time calling previous employers. Of course that depends, again, on the industry you're working in. In most cases .. if we want to really know something .. we'll run a background check instead. If your background check is clean .. we don't give a rat's butt if your former HR manager didn't like you.

If you're really worried about it .. when you fill out applications .. use your boss's direct line. That way your former supervisor gets the call instead of the HR department.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 10:00:57 AM   
xxblushesxx


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Status: offline 		OH!! Yes!! I meant after you have quit your job definitely. SP makes some very valid points. I have worked in sales and marketing at various times in my life, and, basically, a two week notice was "get your stuff and get out" (they are afraid you will steal leads, info, etc...although if you were going to do something like that, you've probably already done it...)

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 10:12:07 AM   
TheBanshee


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Status: offline 		You also should ask those people who are so inclined to give you a letter of reference.  This you can attach to an application (via paper or as attachment to an online resume).  Depending on their relationship to you in work, someone who goes to the trouble to write something positive is (I think) weighted more than when they have to call and ask what was good about this person.   

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 11:26:07 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		...right then.

"nice girl" written at an even level means average.

"nice girl" written that the letters elevate up- means above average.
if "nice girl" is written and the letters elevate down- then below average.

Supposedly an employee has the right to view her personnel file. so one would think all is good... well one office job I worked we kept 2 files on employees.  1 was the file to show the employee if asked... the other was the real file.

the trend is away from phone verification, and to written form.   this is to furnish proof that info can be disclosed.  most still will only verify start and end dates and position title.

some jobs -- specialty - or per haps a small town it is possible to be black listed.   of course nothing is wrote down anywhere.

some ads for jobs  are fake- to prove there is no American available to work so as to get visa waivers [hence lower payroll cost]
others- the organization knows full well whom they want to hire, but go thru the motions due to certain laws.

if  you plan to leave- ask trusted coworkers maybe 2 of them to write up a letter of recommendation.   you see it -you have it -you present it to new employer.

word of mouth is a good way to get employment.

if there was a written evaluation on your job performance in the past- you can use that.   BTW- a work written reprimand that was a few years old- came in handy during one of my court cases.... 

:-)



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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 11:38:32 AM   
wandersalone


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Status: offline 		When giving the names of referees you can specify who you want as your referee so put down your manager rather than the HR person.  Working in the human services industry employers generally are strict on contacting referees so assume that they will call them.  In my experience written references are not accepted in many cases however that may be more so in Australia.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 12:05:12 PM   
DarkSteven


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Status: offline 		First off, I know nothing of employment law outside the US, so this is US-specific.

There are no laws that prohibit an employer from saying enything against anyone.  Even if they committed libel or slander, there is a huge bar to clear for someone to get convicted on thsoe charges.

That said, many companies have internal policies that go farther than the law regarding what can be said.  Your company is evidently one of them.


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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 12:31:05 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

First off, I know nothing of employment law outside the US, so this is US-specific.

There are no laws that prohibit an employer from saying enything against anyone.  Even if they committed libel or slander, there is a huge bar to clear for someone to get convicted on thsoe charges.

That said, many companies have internal policies that go farther than the law regarding what can be said.  Your company is evidently one of them.


I've been down this road. I left a firm after the company bounced a paycheck and I had some weird responses from my next couple of interviewers so I decided to record a call to my old employer asking about me, perfectly legal the system made the required beeping sounds etc.. My old boss flat out made stuff up. My lawyer filed the defamaton suit and suddenly the guy wants to negotiate. If an old employer is telling lies about you it is defamation and its simply a matter of documenting what the lie is and the actual facts. No lawyer is going to want to walk into a courtroom defending a defamation case where there is an actual recording of the lie being told.

That's why most companies have clear rules about only verifying dates of employment and other clear cut facts.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 12:45:38 PM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		Companies dont want to open themselves up for liability. So they will only disclose dates of employment in most cases. However if you list an employer or supervisor as a reference, they may give more information. So be careful who you list as references.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 1:10:18 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Pahunkboy... No idea what you're on about and I question whether you know, either.

Each company has their own rules about employee access to files... there may be some individual states who legislate access.

There is no "trend" with regard to checking past employment. Every company sets their own rules. If there were a trend, it certainly wouldn't lean toward written verification as it is both too labor and time intensive, as well as too easy to falsify.

"Blacklisting" is, for the most part, an excuse used by people who do a bad job or will not bother to find work, to blame others for their being unemployed. In the years that I've been a HR professional, I've never seen any real blacklisting used, nor have I ever heard of it being used.

The Department of Labor certifies labor availability with regard to visa programs. Fake advertisements would be of no benefit as they would only generate applications from individuals that would need to be discounted in order to obtain Labor Certification.

I know of no company who would accept employment recommendations from merely a co-worker. Verification through HR or directly from a supervisor is what is usually required.

Also, it is doubtful that a copy of a performance evaluation provided by the applicant would be accepted. Perhaps if it were mailed directly from the previous employer to the prospective employer... then again, I still wouldn't have accepted it by itself.

DarkSteven is precisely right.

DomKen... every state has its own laws regarding the recording of telephone conversations.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 1:35:40 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I don't know of any law that prevents a former employer talking about your performance on the job.  A former employer can't slander or libel you.  A former supervisor's opinion of you is subjective generally.  So they have to be able to prove the things they say about you when they comment on your performance.  If you got fired because you were routinely late, that is definitely provable and they can say so.  If you got caught on camera stealing, than they can say so.  What they can't do is just say, "Oh yeah, that employee was horrible.  He/She was just an idiot." 

All that being said, a lot of former employers won't do that.  A lawsuit is a pain in the ass, whether you are justified legally or not. 

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/13/2008 1:47:57 PM >

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 1:47:53 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I'm going to be quitting my job soon to move to a new location. Sir and I are getting married and I'm moving in with him. I was told by my direct boss that by law, the only thing a past employer can tell a prospective employer is whether or not the person works or worked there. I get along well with my direct bosses and co-workers as well as my clients. In fact, I get along with almost everyone except for the human resource manager. Unfortunately, I think that's the person most prospective employers talk to. Is my direct boss right in saying I shouldn't worry? Is there really such a law?


There is sort of such a law, the Privacy Act, but it applies to government agencies, not to private employers.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/13/2008 1:48:11 PM >

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 2:41:34 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline 		as a manager, they have told us in hr classes that we can not discuss performance issues with anyone regarding a past employee .  we were taught to refer all verification of employment to hr immediately.

we are allowed to send employees away with a letter of reference though.  i agree with whoever posted about the referral letter.  get them, and hang on to them forever.  one i received from eds in 1984 helped me get the job i have currently, back in 1995.

some perspective employers will accept a letter, on company letterhead, as the reference, and not even check the reference farther.

good luck, and congrats on the move!

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 7:08:49 PM   
kc692


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

No, although generally to cover their asses, most employers WON'T say anything except to verify length of employment.  They don't want you suing them for libel/slander/whatever (depending on whether it's verbal or written).

When I have had a good employee, one that I would hire again, I am happy to discuss anything about them with their prospective employers, and I tell the employee that, and ask them if it's okay.  For people I would not hire again, I tell them I will verify employment dates in writing only, and to have their prospective employer fax something over.

Cali



You are exactly correct.  When I was in human resources, the fact I would only be given employment periods, said in the way that would allow no questions, or, "that is all I can give you" was telling in itself, unless I was calling the corporate office and they worked in a branch.  If in the same office, tone tells a lot, whether right or wrong to the one making the call.

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RE: Law on what previous employers can say? - 7/13/2008 9:03:40 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		Another point to consider, and this depends on the industry and company size etc - but in some industries and especially in the small business world there is also a "good old boys network." Information may be shared and you will never even know that a reference was called or that you were passed over because of it. Im certainly not going to tell a prospective applicant that he was not offered the job because their former boss told me: "That guy is a fucking menace.  A tornado wont do as much damage as that FOD flingling incompetent cocksucker. He quit because I told him to resign or I was calling the FAA..." The guy got declined with a:

"We regret to inform you that, after careful consideration of a number of qualified candidates, the position was awarded to another applicant. At this time, our needs are met but your resume will be kept on file for the next twelve months.  Thank you for your interest."

and absolutely nothing to ever indicate that I ever even called his previous employer, much less got a 30 minute tirade on all the things he broke, damage, lost, destroyed, ruined, and otherwise fucked up during his 3 months there...  If someone works in the small business sector where there is a boss rather than an HR dept, don't think for a moment that if you are a screwup the various bosses will not be discussing it - even if there were privacy laws. (Which to my knowledge there are not.) From attening chamber meetings I know exactly which cashier steals, which dental hygenist dropped a bite block down a patients throat, what hairstylist forgot a woman and essentially cooked her hair, what legal secretary accidentally copied case notes and sent them to opposing counsel, and what waitress has a bad attitude and a drinking problem. Lets face it, one of the biggest problems business owners and managers have is employees and when they congregate in the bar to blow off steam they bitch about their problems - pain in the ass customers and fuckup employees.

If you are in fear of a negative reference you are better off not mentioning it at all if you are going out of the area or just sucking up and facing that they will find out anyway of its the same industry / area. It may not come through HR but it will come up through the grapevine.

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