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armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:47:55 PM

philosophy

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Who or what do the armed services serve?

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:53:14 PM

slvemike4u

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Philo this is a vague question,not sure I understand?

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:54:52 PM

Thadius

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It is an offshoot of the discussion he and DA were having in the other thread...

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:57:03 PM

philosophy

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Fair enough. A service, any service, has to serve someone. When an armed service thinks it doesn't serve something you end up with military coups and whatnot. Pakistan, Burma for instance. So, do armed services serve the state, the people, corporations, the executive, an ideal, what?

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:58:37 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

It is an offshoot of the discussion he and DA were having in the other thread...

...yup, and i figured it was an interesting enough point to have its own thread.......

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 2:59:58 PM

Leatherist

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They serve the political arm.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:00:07 PM

DomKen

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The armed services serve the state, in the communal sense IOW the people.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:00:11 PM

NumberSix

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they are an extension of politics by other means.

Sun Tzu (he has put it the best)

they are self-serving; ultimately.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:01:47 PM

Leatherist

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When diplomacy fails-send in the marines.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 7/11/2008 3:02:07 PM >

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:10:26 PM

slvemike4u

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In this country they serve the will of the politicians, in other words the state theoretically anyway...and yes SunTzu did say it best...did not someone else characterize war as a failure of Diplomacy...Bismark I think

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:11:18 PM

camille65

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I thought they served the President/Commander in Chief?
That could be utterly wrong though.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:11:47 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

In this country they serve the will of the politicians, in other words the state theoretically anyway...and yes SunTzu did say it best...did not someone else characterize war as a failure of Diplomacy...Bismark I think

No idea, I just know that politicians lose more wars than armies.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:14:07 PM

Thadius

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**fast reply**

I seem to remember a part of an oath "...to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic..."

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:16:09 PM

Leatherist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

**fast reply**

I seem to remember a part of an oath "...to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic..."

So did Bush, then he proceeded to "modify" it.

Can you guess which the average soldier is going to obey-faced with death or the brig?

The constitution, or the asshole with the braid telling him, "do this, or else?"

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:23:55 PM

Thadius

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As long as it is a lawful order... I would say "Yes, sir" or "Aye, Aye".

It was above my paygrade to analyze whether the order was constitutional or not at the time it was given. That however would not stop me from reporting something I felt was in conflict, after the point. I am glad I am not in that position anymore, I can call bullshit from the sidelines now.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 3:26:47 PM

DomAviator

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Their immediate boss is the President - and they serve at his will. Article 2 of the US Consititution appoints the president Commander In Chief

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;

In clause 5 of the same article he is responsible for commissioning officers of the armed forces

shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

The oath a military officer swears says : I, (state your full name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

An Enlisted Man says: I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. I swear (or affirm) that I am fully aware and fully understand the conditions under which I am enlisting

Thus the US Military works for the PRESIDENT not the individual taxpayer as was mistakenly stated in the other thread. The president "hires" (appoints) the officers, the enlisted are sworn in by one of those appointed officers and are sworn to obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over them (Officers commissioned by the president as stated previously).

So continuing form the other thread the "Im a taxpayer you work for me" shit doesnt fly... Nowhere does it say we work for you, or even in your interests. America is NOT a democracy it is a republic and Joe Citizen gets one day a year to decide things in Govt otherwise sit back and enjoy the ride while those you elected drive the train... Joe Taxpayer has jack shit to say about anything except on election day... Like whats happening , reelect the incumbents if you dont make your displeasure known by voting them out. However, the military is under the control of the elected not the citizens.

< Message edited by DomAviator -- 7/11/2008 3:30:37 PM >

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 4:20:41 PM

pahunkboy

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the golden rule. he who has the gold, makes the rule.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 4:28:00 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

Who or what do the armed services serve?

They're supposed to serve the country that funds them, and the electorate, but in a democracy or a dictatorship, most armies seem to serve themselves (and help themselves, too).

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 5:05:19 PM

Vendaval

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The state and the people.

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RE: armed services serve who exactly? - 7/11/2008 5:10:53 PM

kdsub

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When I was in I was serving my family, my nation, and its ideals. Politician is not a bad word as many seem to incinuate...They are my elected representatives that reflect the thinking of the majority of the nation at the time of the election. This may not be true in other parts of the world but it is in the US.

The thinking may be wrong and need to be changed but that is my responsibility as a voting citizen not the fault of a politician doing what he thinks best.

Butch

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