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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 5:26:57 AM

chamberqueen

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I don't think you you can really show trust without opening yourself to some extent. What surprised me about trust in my own life is that it has not been linear but tends to come in waves - moving forward, like the tide coming in. Once in a while there is a miscommunication or He unknowingly touches on a sore point in my life but as a whole the trust grows.

I have built protective walls around myself since childhood. I can let most people inside a little, but to let them in further I need to allow them to see more of myself. This makes me more "vulnerable" to them. In a healthy relationship, each time I do this I feel a sense of relief.

The relationship I am in now may be the most healthy one of my life. Each time I find myself holding something back and finally release it there is a flood of relief. My Master never uses the information against me. This doesn't mean that I don't still hesitate sometimes. It is easier for me to trust someone with my body than my deepest emotions. The more I open up the more He trusts me - He sees that I am not a one dimensional slave with no feelings but a real live breathing person who has flaws but is dedicated to Him. This allows Him to share His feelings about things in return and not to just be a commander.

As in any situation, it is important to gauge how vulnerable to be. I work in international business, and I admit that as a woman I sometimes allow myself to "look" vulnerable to get the upper edge in a negotiation. If a man sees my supposed vulnerability he is more likely to show his own and then I get a better understanding of the situation and can try to come up with the best win/win scenario.

I typically only show true vulnerabilities to one main person in my life at a time. I typically do it very carefully. If you can do this I think that you will find your relationship more rewarding for both of you.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 8:55:10 AM

SteelofUtah

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Mad Rabbit,

You often say what I am trying to in much fewer words and greater clearity.

This is what I was TRYING to say in my other Thread.

So I am sure you know where I stand on this issue.

Steel

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 10:37:34 AM

ownedgirlie

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What an awesome thread. And I just love what charlotte said through Stephann's post, about people wanting the perfect relationships so that then they can open up. I see that a lot, and in fact, I've probably done that in my past, too.

By the time I met Mr. Wonderful, I didn't trust myself, let alone anyone else. And I distinctly remember the moment when I just knew I had to take that leap of faith in order to go forward, else there was no point in continuing. I literally felt like I was about to jump off a very tall cliff, and I had to do so with the faith that he would catch me rather than keep his hands in his pockets, letting me crash to the ground. By the time I reached that point it was so scary to do that, but I did it, and there he was.

Becoming vulnerable to him was the scariest relationship decision I have ever made - beyond even my past decision to get married. It was also the best decision I have ever made.

Kind of like investing money - the higher risk, the bigger return. The lower risk, the lower return. The scary part is when you invest all of yourself - when you become really and fully vulnerable to someone - you have everything to lose. I suppose that's why they call it a leap of faith...

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 10:37:57 AM

SirDominic

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Hey Rabbit,
The bond IS proportional to the amount of vulnerability one is willing to expose of oneself. You have to risk to succeed, with the knowledge that sometimes the risk will not turn out well for you. And sometimes it will turn out beyond your wildest dreams.

But this has NOTHING to do with "plunging head first into the unknown with only faith being the reasoning behind your actions". That is the worst thing you can do. Building trust, and opening yourself to being vulnerable is something to be done slowly over time. You put a little out there, and if your risk is rewarded, you put out a little more of yourself. If you do it incrementally you have a better chance of not being hurt.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 11:01:22 AM

SailingBum

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I for one disagree that to have a meaningful relationship. You have to bare your soul. I have a meaningful relationship with quite a few family menbers and a couple of friends... With any of them I don't have a "tell all" situation. That is not to say that I have not revealed my private thoughts and experiences. But not one of them know everything about me. I am just not wired that way.

BadOne

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 3:15:55 PM

DesFIP

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From: Apple County NY
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Sure you can. By going slowly. So slowly that you don't ever risk a lot of vulnerability. If we could quantify it and say we have 100 units of vulnerability, it would obviously not be very bright to risk all of them the first time you meet at Starbucks.

But a unit every few weeks or whatever time period you pick? That would be safe because the other person would have already proved them selves trustworthy with the first 12 units so even if he behaved badly at number 13, you are only risking one unit. Even when you give over the last one, you're only risking one at a time.

As far as a person being the Manchurian Candidate or something and suddenly after five years saying "Ha, ha, this was all a mask"? I don't believe that's possible. I do however believe it is entirely possible that you blinded yourself to many a red flag prior to this.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 5:56:48 PM

goodgirl08

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naturalsin
The mating habits of porcupines are the subject of many jokes and much curiosity. The truth is close to the old punchline, "Very carefully." Old World porcupines engage in a complex courtship that occurs once (occasionally twice) a year from March to December. It involves a mating dance during which the male showers the female with urine. If she rejects her suitor, the female becomes very aggressive, stamping her feet and shaking her quills. If she approves of the male, he will stand still in front of her and then move toward and away from her many times while making certain sounds. The final phase of the courtship occurs when the female raises her hindquarters into the air and lowers her chest to the ground. The male approaches and mounts her with one paw on each of her sides, holding on loosely but not leaning on her at all. Their intercourse is accompanied by loud squeals, grunts, and whines.
http://animals.jrank.org/pages/3433/Old-World-Porcupines-Hystricidae-BEHAVIOR-REPRODUCTION.html

That sounds like my kind of courtship (except for the once or twice a year part).

I know I've made myself too vulnerable to people in the past, by not seeing 'red flags,' as they say. Working actively to increase my self-confidence and make better choices about this kind of stuff has helped me a lot. But, I am always conscious about not being too hardened, cause you know, some people are worth exposing some vulnerability. So I just try to make good judgment calls with who and how much to expose. I have to be very confident about the decency of the person in question. I guess it's intuitive. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes feel hesistant (before the fact) or anxious (after the fact) but I think it's ultimately worth it.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 8:30:45 PM

kyraofMists

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I know that for myself, I agree. I have to be vulnerable with them and perceive vulnerability from them in order to have a deep connection. If the majority of my interactions with someone are filled with what I call the "social niceties", then I am not motivated to be vulnerable with them and become more intimately involved.

For me, a deep connection needs emotional and mental intimacy and in order to build that intimacy we both have to be vulnerable with each other. I know that I need mental stimulation and it is definitely something that I need from my partners in order to maintain the relationship. But I don't think it works that way for everyone.

Sometimes I am not sure if this is a fortunate thing for me or not, but I am very tender hearted. I feel things very deeply and I don't really let it show very often. I have been fumbling around with words for the last 20 minutes or so and I am not sure if I can express what I want to say...

Because of the bond that I have with him, I am less likely to be hurt. In a relationship with a less significant bond, I am more likely to be hurt. In many ways, I think being hurt is about perception; how we perceive the actions of those around us. My perception of him is that he will not intentionally harm me. My perception of others, does not operate from that foundation, so I am more likely to perceive the intent to harm from them.

When I do feel hurt by his actions, the emotion does not usually last very long and that is because I believe that he will not intentionally harm me. When I am hurt by other people's actions, the emotion tends to last longer.

On the other hand, because of the bond that I have with him, he has the knowledge on just how to crush me. Someone that doesn't have that bond with me, will not know the most efficient way to cause me pain.

If he were to turn completely malicious one day and set out to intentionally hurt me, then he could do a lot of damage. However, something Celeste said once has stuck with me. I am paraphrasing, but that she would not be destroyed because she would still have the ability to love. Loving others would help heal some of that damage, just as loving him has helped heal the damage inflicted by others.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 8:36:50 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

....there seems to be an equation at work where growth of that bond is proportional to the amount of vulnerability I am willing to expose myself to. Risking "non-safety", exposing yourself to being harmed, and plunging head first into the unknown with only faith being the reasoning behind your actions is an escapable part of finding that meaningful person in your life.

Do you agree or disagree?

No.. I don't agree... for the equation means that if I blindly jump and expose myself completely.. then I should experience the greatest growth as a result. It might be .... If I am lucky.... but I may be equally unlucky and have choose some completely wrong for me.

quote:

Do you think you can develop a deep bond with someone while always protecting yourself and minimizing any risk of them fucking you over?

Making a wise choice of a partner or partners as the case maybe... is just as much of an effort to protect oneself as holding back very intimate and personal details of oneself. Choosing wisely and building confidence and trust propells a person to validate this trust. We take little steps and sometimes we taking a bigger step... but most often when we are successful in these steps.. it is not because of blind jumps of faith... but mostly of considered and reasonable instincts of the situation. Seldom is throwing caution to the wind and jumping into relationships a recipe for any substained success.

But... neither do I think we can build a relationship without risks.. it's not that we shouldn't take risks... or that we should risk it all at one spin of the wheel.... Risk what you can afford to loose... one penny at a time if necessary.

quote:

Or is the depth of the bond relevant to how much harm the person could cause you if they one day turned completely malicious?

Depth.. Strength... Closeness... choose your word... but regardless... people will experience varying degrees of pain/harm from the disappointment/betrayal form someone that is vulnerable too. Some can be very vulnerable to a person... and still stand when the wind is strong... largely because becoming vulernable to another is not about becoming weak to them... They still have roots in the ground so to speak that can allow them to weather the storm. I am very vulnerable to my girls... but... I am who I am.. and my vulnerability doesn't not weaken who I am as a person nor does it make me dependent on them as a person. Sure... I might loose a limb or two... the leaves may show tired and dry... but .. the roots are strong.. .and I would rebound.. but the strength of me is not weakend by those around me... it is only weaked by what is within me. I choose to stay strong..

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 8:44:24 PM

Vendaval

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Trust and acceptance take time as do really knowing another person. I do not favor blind faith but rather a gradually evolving understanding of the other. Impulsiveness in my past led to crash and burn scenarios.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/11/2008 10:13:45 PM

writerly808

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Hey Mad Bunny:

"Everything you know is wrong." at least about Porcupine Sex. Otherwise, I look forward to reading the replies to your thoughts.

E.

Thank you, I now know more about porcupine mating than I ever needed to. Ugh. LOL.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/12/2008 4:47:31 AM

eyesopened

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The act of walking or is really just a controlled fall. It takes a while to build the confidence to know how to walk and it requires falling often. It is the desire and need to walk that keeps a toddler from saying "fuck it, buy a bigger stroller cuz i ain't falling on my ass ever again!"

As social animals, it is our desire and need for human relationships that allow us to try, try again. As one who was guilty of sabotaging my relationships whenever i felt things were getting too close, i didn't see how my being careful was in a way self-destructive. By remaining emotionally unavailable, i was safe. But safe from what? It sucks to have ones heart broken but i've had my heart broken before and i survived it. It took me time to realize that if i focus on what could go wrong, it will go wrong. When i shifted my focus on what could go right, things started going right.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/12/2008 7:22:55 AM

MadRabbit

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FR

Thanks for all the insightful and personal replies from all you people who managed to figure out this thread wasn't really about porcupines fucking and renewing my faith in posting here in the process. All of them were exceptional and brought up really good points and I can't think of anything to say in reply other than it wasn't my intention to advocate rashness or stuipidity.

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/12/2008 3:28:52 PM

Amadan

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General random thoughts....

Damn good post. Tis far too easy for defenses to become prison walls.
I must to confess to occasionally sharpening my quills o'ermuch.

That said, with the excellent summary of real porcupine mating rituals posted, if one were to step from the metaphorical into the literal...
So THAT'S what I've been doing wrong! I've always held off on peeing on a girl 'til after we were together. Might make clubbing a lot more difficult, tho....

And finally, remember that The Hedgehog Can Never Be Buggered At All

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RE: How Do Porcupines Fuck? - 7/12/2008 6:35:44 PM

StormsSlave

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My first date with My Lord was a leap of faith. I admit that after the first leap, he had a lot of walls to overcome. Had I not been willing to let down my guard and trust a little up front, I would be missing out on the richest, most satisfying love affair I ever dreamed of. I had settled, I admit, and resigned myself to a very vanilla, very suburban life made out of what I should want. Now I live every day wallowing in the excitement of going after what I actually do want. He supports me, picks me up, cheers for me, and constantly challenges my safety nets. I am living, maybe really for the first time.

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