RE: Kink V Lifestyle

RE: Kink V Lifestyle (Full Version)

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solia -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/7/2008 6:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnWarren Exactly, I am put in mind of a sign that appeared on the newly relocated campus of Barrington College in Lincoln, Rhode Island. "It is traditional that students not walk on the grass in the quadrangle. This tradition begins July 16th." How funny! Makes one wonder if the author had a dominant streak...hmm.

MisterP61 -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/7/2008 7:42:35 PM)
Again My thanks to all the responders, whether or not W/we agree is irrelevant. Knowing all sides is better then not knowing any. I will reiterate though that not all that I wrote was meant how it was read ROFL, but can definitely see why it was read that way.... again I will apologize for that, and every point has validity no matter how it was read, and no matter how I see them. Reminds Me of the saying ... one mans garbage.... another mans gold.

LPslittleclip -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/7/2008 8:00:40 PM)
to the op Sir i have observed from a different perspective that of a submissive and i have only been to 2 different clubs/dungeons, as well as several different like minded gatherings. i have observed that the general respect in society has declined in recent generations and it shows in Manny of the younger members who join. for the more Senior members or those who had more respect during their respective generation are more respective in turn. also theres a difference in how a different culture/subculture renders respect. for a native American it is disrespectful to look directly into the eyes of an elder during a exchange, and the Latinos who are a very close knit group and quick to defend any slight against them, and the Asians, and and and... as our generation broadens its social horizons there will be differences in how various curtsies are given and received. in some of my readings i found references to a training/protection collar.i think this is a good idea or a individual who would preform such a service to the new members, like a guide to the new members. in the previous club/dungeon i frequented there was a person who each meeting asked the new visitors to gather to them and the rules would be read and a tour of the facility would follow answering questions as they went. in the current club/dungeon this is not done and there is a lot more discourtesy from newcomers. as a fairly new member to the kink/lifestyle i feel it is also my responsibility to the newer members to provide some guidance to the basic protocol so there is less misgivings and more fellowship to all who enjoy the kink/lifestyle proudly collared by LadyPact

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/7/2008 8:16:00 PM)
ooo and an age bash cherry on top, nice work!

Racquelle -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/7/2008 10:32:08 PM)
There was a time when "colored people" were expected to "show respect" by yes-sirring and yes-mamming every white person they saw. But, the enslavement and oppression of people of color wasn't a respectable activity. The whole "demand respect" and "why don't the _______ show more respect?" argument is as ancient as time, and from most of the recent iterations, it seems like a bunch of horseshit anyway. You (we) feel disrespected for one of a few reaons - 1. people didn't agree with you and you decided that meant they didn't respect you, 2. you are actually being an asshole and don't deserve anyone's respect, 3. times change, and the same old bullshit paradigms you cling to have become outmoded (and by you - I mean, all of us, because I have been on both sides of each of these.) I appreciate when certain traditions are honored and followed, and I appreciate when others are abandoned and eschewed. It's a paradox. Part of it comes down to my strong conviction that I know the one right way to ___________. I have learned to take it easy, find something to like and enjoy about just about everyone I meet, and the only time I really need to be a hard-ass is when I have an implement of torture in my hand and a quivering sub who anticipates its use. The rest of the time, I'd rather not worry so much about whether I am respected. It's not like any of you on here can sign my pay check or evict me from my home or anything. I reserve the right to revert to screaching-harpy at my own discretion.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 2:52:33 AM)
Sex and Kink are easy to define! You know what does or does not work for you! The lifestyle is a bit of an abstract concept. However again, it's based on what does or does not work for you and your partner(s). "The Lifestyle" is a loose group of people in a sub-culture. There are sub-cultures within "The lifestyle" even. However, it's what you make of it. Not what every Tom, Dick, Harry and Jane say's how it should be. At best you can figure out the Best Practices and learn about the things not to do.. Some people view D/s as being the thing that defines if you are into "the lifestyle" or not. This is a crock or sham in my opinion. Because what about DOM couples and switches and other things. So, you have D/s and TPE M/s relationships and blah blah blah... So many things that vary. Even the Gorean crowd, those more rooted in Leather or Old Guard. Some people have adopted the concepts of oriental pleasure slaves! OH.. yeah.. Lot's of Sex and Kink there! If BDSM was just about D/s! Fuck that noise! I have to have my Sex and KINK! That's higher on my desire list compared to D/s. Yes, I wanna Fuck! I wanna Spank! Call somebody dirty names... Do all kinds of twisted messed up shit. Then kick back and have a mutal laugh later on! Perhaps lay in bed smoking a cigerettee together.. whatever else. I Don't have D/s shoved so far up my ass to the 10th degree. If I had, I would have never been in a DOM couple relationship either. So just what the Fuck is the lifestyle anyways. It's just a big general label for all us crazy twisted people doing the wonderful crazy things we do! Most of it is very sexual and kink based. People have been using one another for sex and kink for thousands of years, without it being called "the lifestyle".

LadyPact -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 3:06:52 AM)
Wow! Do we have an interesting family discussion coming! I am running late to work at the moment, so I can only say this one quick thing. I will come back and post the rest later. Hon, you have to remember that not every D/s dynamic is run the way I run Mine. Not every sub is told to behave the way I have clip behave. In other people's houses, they run things their own way. Not everybody does things in the same high protocol fashion that you've become accustomed to. (That goes for both of you, btw.) Neither is "better" than the other. Just different. When I get back from work, I'll elaborate. ETA, yes, Red does seem to be one of the pretty good eggs around here. Red, I'll be happy to teach you the flogging style.

Madame4a -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 3:22:52 AM)
I know this is a stupid and perhaps throw away answer... but I think what you're seeing, while it can happen offline, its mostly an online thing.... given that I mostly always agree with LP.. I'm going to suggest that I'll likely agree with you too grin welcome to the boards... although I'm sure its not your first time here...

stella41b -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 5:35:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle. I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true. What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks. I take issue here with 'the lifestyle', as I don't believe there is one and I find it's better to be a bit more specific than misusing the word 'lifestyle', because if you look at your statement it could be inferred that people interested in kink are somehow inferior or lesser than those into 'the lifestyle'. This smacks of elitism and it's IMHO the creation of such divisions which cause so much discord and conflict when none isn't necessary. BDSM relationships is just one additional acronym, but more specific. But that aside I would agree that the Internet appears to have created a Wal-Mart Happy Shopper approach to BDSM where some people come expecting their demands to be fulfilled and some can get downright pissy when it doesn't happen. As to what happened to the days when a submissive was just that, I'm inclined to believe that there was a bit of social upheaval when Queen Victoria died. But again I see your point. However I don't see it asa submissive or Dominant issue, it's a people issue. While I don't expect someone who labels themself as a Dominant to stomp around giving orders I do expect a modicum of self-control, just as I would a submissive who is meant to be 'submissive at will, but then again recently in London on a bus I heard a 3 year old child call his mother a slapper, and it makes me wonder. It's not something that's exclusive to BDSM. quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 ' Now I do want everyone to keep in mind that I am relatively new to this (2 Years active), but that does not mean I know nothing. I have read on the subject, been to many "like minded" gatherings, learned from some great Masters and Mistresses and rarely see it in real life, it just seems to be on the internet. I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this. I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery. I notice this too, but you know I'm not that person, I don't live their life or live with them. I accept the world for what it is, not what I want it to be. Quite often I'm so engrossed in what I'm doing, in what other people I know are doing, I hardly notice, and when I do well I just ignore it. quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 My Wife who many know here and in person are working on a poly family, and though some come and some go, We will always have each other first and foremost. For those who show respect always, you will know what I am talking about here. I have never asked any body elses sub to call me anything, or even an unowned one. I will know right away if they are good prospects (if unowned) by the way they approach Me or My Wife. Respect is a two way street, and I really do try to show it to all, but at times I find it very difficult and I need to pay close attention to what I say, to temper my words. You will probably find that respect is part of a trilogy with confidence and trust. It's impossible to have one without the other two. My view is that respect, confidnece and trust starts with me and is projected outwards. What I find is that usually people respond in kind, if they don't, oh well, too bad. quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 I am very much into the tradition of the Leather. Its meaning, its importance in the community. I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive. How many have you alienated with this? How many prospects have passed you by? I dont know, but it seems all of that will come with time.... every relationship takes work even the BDSM ones. How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. This goes back to the beginning. There's a significant number of people out there who think they're doing BDSM but it's actually vanilla with a bit of kink thrown in. That's cool, you see I'm just giving my opinion here and making a judgment on people I don't know and clearly don't understand. We all walk our different paths here and have different degrees of awareness, and why shouldn't these people be a part of this site and these forums? You see it's like me when I'm dancing. I actually look like a cow on a trampoline with a cattle prod stuck up my butt, but to me I'm dancing. Just don't stand too close.I won't even go into my singing. You see my lifestyle is probably completely different to every single other person on this thread, but like-minded here would suggest that I can relate to each and every one of them in some way. This is how I interpret 'like-minded', not someone who thinks like me. If there ever was a second person with a similar mindset to me here we'd be in trouble, trust me.

newwacoguy -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 6:03:31 AM)
I read your blog but not the comments of others, I feel that there should be a structure and ettiquite in this life style for both sides, I agree with you and I understand where people come from by saying to each their own and everyone is diffrent but I believe that there should be an unwritten rule guides on how doms and subs should be. With theses guides we can meet each other in person more just like a job interview and lay out what were looking for and what were expecting.

MisterP61 -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 2:37:32 PM)
stella, Thanks for your comments. I have said it before (LOL), but in no way am I saying that those who its a kink for are lesser or even those who consider it a lifestyle. I just wanted views and information from others on what I ( and I do stress I) see as a growing trend. Bottom line is I do always try to show A/all respect, but when they are blatantly disrespectful and purposely, just because someone said something on the boards that they do not like they can get down right nasty. As a community as a whole W/we should stick by each other, for in most places what we do (consensuality aside) is not exactly legal, and what the nilla world sees on TV and movies is not what I see in real life. I have met the most wonderful people RT D/s, M/s ETC, to see how as a community W/we support each other. I am stationed in Korea and the local community where I was before is so very supportive of LadyPact that I can not begin to show My gratitude to them. I just wish I could see it more online ( I do see it in many, yourself included (yes I read your posts, I just dont until recently post much) the respecting others opinion with out being disrespectful to them). Thank you every one for your replies, and I wish I could answer every single one, but I can not be online 24/7. I am learning a whole bunch on many things even if I do not post directly to you. I read every day what people say. MrP

LadyPact -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/8/2008 7:29:30 PM)
As promised, I came back to the thread. My original thoughts were entirely too long for My time limit this morning. Personally, I do think it's a net thing. I also happen to think it occurs more often when it's a member of the site who isn't especially familiar with another member of the site. It keeps it more on the anonymous level. I don't think it happens as often when folks have gotten a chance to know each other, at least through the written word. Of course, even amongst the 'regular' posting people, there will always be some that almost continuously disagree, or don't particularly care for what the other has to say. Not all personality types or writing styles will mesh with everyone else. However, I find, for the most part, that is in the minority. In real life, no. I really don't see it that often at all. I'd be hard pressed to try to remember the last time anyone was discourteous at a "like minded gathering" to Me. Not here in our little community, or the surrounding ones either, for that matter. Off of the top of My head, I can't even recall a single rude person at any of the major events, like SELF and DomCon, that we've attended in the last couple of years. It certainly doesn't happen at the club. Having said all of that, I base that opinion more on common courtesy, rather than respect. I'm still a firm believer that courtesy is easily given to anyone, but respect is earned. There's usually a time investment involved with that. Even in those situations where it comes primarily from reputation, you have to remember how long it took to build that reputation. It sure didn't happen overnight. As to the actual kink V lifestyle question, there really is a lot tied up in that. It's like the two things I've always told you. First, My way (or in other words, the way you've become accustomed to after observing these last couple of years), isn't the One True Way. I don't happen to believe in that there is one. Second, in this, like many other type of "lifestyle" discussions, you take what you need and leave the rest. I do what works for Me. It's that simple. It isn't that one is better or worse than the other. There are a lot of things out there that have fallen under the supposed BDSM umbrella. There's no "L" mixed in there somewhere for either lifestyle or leather. Like Stella said, it really is a subculture that not everyone is interested in. "Lifestyle" seems to be a buzz word that a lot of people don't care for instead of saying "the way I live". Personally, it's easier for Me, so I'll keep saying it the way I do. "Leather" tends to get the same reaction. More often than not, it isn't favorable, even though, in My personal opinion, it really was the gay leathermen who paved the way for a lot of us today. Where people think we would be now if it wasn't for them, I really have no idea. The little bit of acceptance that we have for "alternative lifestyles" today, in a large part, came from them. It's the same as any other advancement that a group has benefited from because somebody else was 'first'. They weren't perfect people, nor would I venture to say that they had perfect intentions. Still, we reaped what they sowed, didn't we? Where a person rests between the kink v lifestyle debate is completely up to them. It can be a good indicator to use to see if someone matches up in a proposed dynamic. Definitely a good tool of reference that I certainly use. I'm sure it helps a lot of other people, too, regardless of where they lie in this wonderful spectrum.

graceadieu -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/9/2008 8:54:23 PM)
Unfortunately, people are often rude and inconsiderate on the internet. That's true whether it's here or a chat room or Facebook or Livejournal or whatever. It has nothing to do with whether people are or aren't involved with the leather community. I'm sure there are leather people who are jerks, too. That being said - please don't disrespect people who aren't involved with your particular lifestyle, especially in the middle of a post about how people are disrespectful online. Remember, there would be no leather community if people weren't "just" kinky!

DarkVictory -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/9/2008 9:23:51 PM)
Taint no such thing as 'the lifestyle'. Never has been. There's stuff that small sub-groups of people do, and then there's stuff that a lot of people do. There's phrases and terms a few people use as a part of their particular subculture, and then there's stuff that a lot of people share language around. It can create the impression of a 'community', or a 'lifestyle', but there aint one.

SurrenderForMe -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/9/2008 10:21:23 PM)
I have been in the scene for more than 20 years. quote: are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle. I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true. What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. I have been involved with groups in MA, NY, CT, and CA. What you see on the net is a variation of behavior in person. Some days better, some days worse. The days you described did not exist in my experience and can't exist. I would not endorse it either. My submissive is an individual, responsible for her/his own actions. The only reflection on me, based on something they do, is how good or bad my taste in partners is. Even that is subjective. No one outside our relationship, unless we told them would know what and how far they submitted. There are too many people in the world for one standard to work globally. The community is a fallacy in any general sense. There are too many diverse interests and perceptions for there to be "a community" with anything like the same standards. It is made up of people. Some have good manners, some don't, some practice protocol from books and classes. Right there you have three different groups. I hope I fall in the group that practices good manners. In that I try to exhibit and extend common courtesy. Anything more is earned by me, or for me, in my interactions. Then you have, submissive, slave, bottom, switch. I don't discipline bottoms or switches. They are play partners. Unless we carry signs with our role on them, no one knows that a bottom mouthing off is only subject to me as an individual choosing to take some action like not see them anymore or make a comment that I found their behavior offensive. So, if you saw that happen, I would be judged by you for a situation you could not have enough information to even examine. The closest you will get to policing, is specific groups/cliques that form along stated goals and enforce compliance or you are excluded. I've watched some of those groups. I remember a specific m/s group in CA. I spoke with a master and his slave. The slave said things that lead me to believe she is whacked. She was mentoring a new slave and was giving unsafe advice (I'm an edge player. I don't get bothered that easily). Her master and I spoke and he agreed that what she was saying was crap and said he had told her it was. He said he would correct the misinformation with the other slave, but that he was fine with what his slave said and did. He was getting what he needed, he wasn't going to rock the boat. I talked to a "sister" in that sm family, that I had known for 9 years. Her response was that I must have misunderstood and of course her sister was absolutely correct in what she said. A piece of what she advised a new comer to do was, if in a scene, circulation was cut off, say nothing. If she was going to pass out, say nothing. The slave is not to bother the master ever. He will decide everything. She said she got no form of satisfaction from serving her master. She just deserved to serve. But in her actions, and her address, she was impeccable. I didn't agree with the statments and the fact that she did all the good slave protocols left me cold. It did not compensate for her expressed beliefs. She was never rude. I did not pursue that group even though I met some really cool people in it. Another group I was involved with had basic common courtesy as their rules and were comfortable for me. Another protocol group had more rules and I didn't encounter people who were content to let their slaves give out bad advice (but then again, I didn't listen to every conversation) so I liked them. As a whole, I have encountered any number of people who are just plain rude. In every group, every event there is someone who can be a jerk, just like in the macrocosm of the society we live in. Since there are no sm cops ( I don't want them). I live in the real world, I take the good and either deal with or avoid the bad. For me, in public, the best I would hope for, would be, common courtesy. Those who do not exercise it, tend to be lonely.

AzureShards -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/9/2008 11:47:07 PM)
I, while having been drawn to various BDSM activities and ideas for a long time, being relatively new to the community find that if I judged the whole by actions and words of many of those on the boards, I would probably decide against ever taking my interest, relationships, and pleasures to the next level. Meaning I would never claim BDSM or venture into the community. Thankfully I am aware that this behavior is fairly normal the internet over and doesn't nessissarily reflect on the group as a whole. Still it does making intelligent discussion on any topic very hard, and many times has caused me to aviod a discussion I might otherwise enjoy. Common courtesy really should be more common. Edited for poor grammer.

AquaticSub -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/10/2008 12:25:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Racquelle When it isn't a kink, we call it "oppression". When it is a willing and mutually pleasureable, and sexually charged exchange - it's a kink. Go ahead - argue with that because you don't like the label, whatever - we all know what it is. Wait... so because I'm owned I'm walking around in a constent state of arousal and wet panties? I mean, if it's a kink then my kink is being tickled 24/7! Huh... I went to go check again and doing his laundry still isn't getting me wet. Maybe scrubbing the shower.... damn it, no. Kinks are what get me off. Living as his girl 24 hours a day is how I want to live, even when I'm not having sex. It doesn't get me wet any more than an equal power relationship does for those who desire that dynamic.

AquaticSub -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/10/2008 12:33:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks. The problem is that you define an as attack someone else may see as simply being a bit of a smartass - which some desirable and amusing. Others may see it as being tough love and some others may feel that the attack in question is justified. quote: I know there is relative safety in the anonymity online, but I would be horrified if one of mine ever behaved like this. I would further pursue corrective action immediately upon discovery. Which is your business to do. However, is it not your business to decide what is correct or incorrect for other people's property. I know for a fact that there are people who disapprove of the way I conduct myself on the forums but neither Valyraen or I have a problem with it so... shrugs There is no problem as far as I'm concerned.

SpiderInWaiting -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/10/2008 2:43:21 AM)
quote: Is it just Me.... or are people today only more interested in the Kink then the actual lifestyle. I do not spend an inordinate time on these boards, but have seen enough to lead Me to believe that this is true. What happened to the days when a submissive was just that and if they ever mouthed off to the wrong person it was a reflection on their Master/Mistress. I am not talking about stating opinions or giving advice, but the flat out attacks. Some Owners do believe in regulating how their subs behave around others and others don't. Mostly it's a matter of preference. My personal preference to not regulate my slaves in regard to how they handle themselves with people in general. They are intelligent adults and able to act like adults. I also don't expect them to submit to anyone other than me in terms of address, bowing, etc. To my slaves other dommes, doms, and subs are just other people and not someone they are in a bdsm relationship with. If someone wants to be treated with respect by one of my slaves then he or she will have to earn it just like they would with anyone else. By the same token I don't like it when someone other than my slaves call me Mistress because it implies a relationship. I don't like it when subs call me Ma'am or Miss just because I am a domme. I think it's annoying and by over using the terms of respect with just anyone can actually make the words meaningless. As far as what is done in the forums, a bdsm forum isn't going to be any different than other forums in that there will be resonable people, uneducated people, intelligent thoughtful people, jokers, flamers, and anything else you can imagine.

Anoush -> RE: Kink V Lifestyle (7/10/2008 4:26:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MisterP61 I am very much into the tradition of the Leather. Its meaning, its importance in the community. I see these new P/people coming on here saying you will do this and you will do that before I will look at you, and to me this seems counter productive. How many have you alienated with this? How many prospects have passed you by? I dont know, but it seems all of that will come with time.... every relationship takes work even the BDSM ones. How can I demand respect if I Myself show none. It's nice that you are very much into the tradition of the Leather and its meaning and importance in the community -- but if you're defining your community to include those that are not into that tradition -- why are you surprised? Stick with Leather people and you won't have to put up with what you perceive as non lifestyle. There are plenty of people who consider themselves "lifestyle" but are not at all interested in poly/old guard stuff, btw. And why do you care if others are being alienating, or having prospects pass them by? What is it to do with what you and your wife are doing?

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