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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/4/2008 1:50:33 AM

Archer

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Lies? I count 2 from you provable in this post and you accuse me??? LOLLLLLOLLOOLLLLLL
You are the one offering up lies that I have shown already within the posts.
Claiming I offered One Instance when I offered 2 as well as a study link and a source link plain as the text in the post for everyone to read = bald faced lie #1
Claiming I never offered up a solution= Lie #2 again proven by the link to an earlier posting on the subject easily available before you falsely accused me.

So why do you persist in lieing?????????

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 12:49:55 AM

Zensee

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I live in Victoria, Canada. It has the highest percentage of retirees (65 and older) anywhere in Canada (i.e. the highest expected demand on it's healthcare resources). I can get an appointment with my doctor next week or attend a walk-in clinic and wait between ten minutes to an hour to see a doctor. Sometimes emergencies and clinics get backed up or are short staffed and wait times can get longer but that happens in any system, public or private.

When I hear the arguments of the nay sayers here it, reminds me of the learned men who refused to look through Galileo's telescope at the moons of Jupiter, because they knew there was nothing to see.

Health care is far less likely to bankrupt Canada than the predatory special interest lobbies in the USA that have tried to destroy our cattle industry and largely succeeded in destroying our softwood lumber industry (by stealing five billion dollars from it and, after many years, finally returning only four billion of it with a note saying 'oops! guess we were wrong, here's most of your money back. We kept some to cover the expenses we incurred from robbing you...'

Oops. Did I just try a hijack? Naughty me.

Z.

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 1:32:49 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Socialised medicine is no panecea. I've spoken to UK people who are waiting months to get a hip replaced because they cannot afford to 'go private'.

Using the UK as an example isn't wise on the grounds our healthcare system isn't representative of European health care; for example, Germany is an altogether different matter. The difference between the two nations is the German public is prepared to invest in public services, and this manifests itself in politics; the English public are suspicious of public schemes - hence the chronic lack of investment during the Conservative Party's spell at the helm (1979-1997). What we have now is a situation where the health service is creaking under the weight, but we're hardly representative of European health care - largely because the English people hold markedly different political values to the continental Europeans.

Nevertheless, I'll relate two events to you, and you can decide whether or not they measure up to the US system:

My Grandma died around a year ago. Before she died, she was in hospital for 3 weeks. She was weighted on hand and foot and given the care and attention as befitting a dying woman. In terms of the cost of this, it will have been substantial - morphine, food, nurses' care etc....there was no charge to my family over and above the tax that every person in the country pays to maintain the health service.

I was suffering from chest pains around 6 months ago. I made an appointment with my doctor on the Friday morning and he made time for me that Friday afternoon - chest pains and heart problems are taken seriously (as they should be). I went to see my doctor; we had a chat for 10 minutes, and without even asking he phoned for an ambulance to take me to the hospital. Within 5 minutes, an ambulance picked me up and two medics performed a serious of tests on me in the back of the ambulance. Then I was taken down to the local hospital, where I was immediately put on a bed and more tests were performed. At that point, they decided it wasn't serious, but wanted to keep me in over night to understand the nature of the problem. By this time, the ward was full to the brim with people being admitted for heart problems - many were obviously in a lot of distress - most will have been related to smoking. So, as I wasn't serious, I was put on a chair in a corridor while the more serious were looked at first and foremost. I was on that chair for 4 hours - not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, but an insignificant price to pay for having my health tended to. Then I was taken to two separate units and all sorts of tests were performed on me. At the end of the day, I was given a meal and a bed and kept in overnight. In the morning, they had me running on tread mills, with more tests being done on my heart. Then I went home and within 2 weeks the results of the tests were through my letterbox. 'All of this at no charge above and beyond the tax paid into the system.

Edited for spelling.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 7/5/2008 1:35:23 AM >

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 4:03:48 AM

RealityLicks

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I can normally see my doctor the same day if I attend a drop-in, or else book an appointment for the next day. I had months of physiotherapy this year for a sports injury, delivered in an excellent clinic about five minutes away.

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 7:41:41 AM

NeedingMore220

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Then I went home and within 2 weeks the results of the tests were through my letterbox. 'All of this at no charge above and beyond the tax paid into the system.

Edited for spelling.

I'm glad you were okay and well cared for. I'm curious - may I ask how much tax you personally pay into the system each year for this healthcare? Is it broken out what your taxes pay?

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 7:52:11 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I had months of physiotherapy this year for a sports injury, delivered in an excellent clinic about five minutes away.

I've had brain surgery (jokes welcome). I couldn't start to list the treatment I had and the specialists I'd seen, the amount of time I spent in hospital. All in all I was doing the medical merry go round for the best part of two years, a full year I couldn't work. I'd always been healthy and this illness was a bolt out of the blue. It seemed like one day I was healthy, the next I was fighting for my life. I wouldn't complain about anything I experienced during my illness, the National Health Service was fabulous. I'd gladly wait for some minor treatment for some irritating complaint if I knew someone desperate for treatment was getting it. I've always gladly paid National Insurance and tax and would have gladly paid more, even before my illness. (Hmm, I don't like paying tax for illegal wars)

I've lived in Holland, Belgium, Germany and France. All have their idiosyncrasies but all give good quality and effective treatment. Only political prejudice would have people opting for a more expensive private system which almost invariably give worse clinical results for the majority.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 7/5/2008 8:01:07 AM >

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RE: Best Health Care in the World... - 7/5/2008 8:22:49 AM

kiwisub12

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Just to clarify the OP - the unfortunate dead woman was in a psychiatric emergency ward. I have had a little experience of psych. patients and drama tends to be their middle name. And yes, medical personal get jaded when subject to drama day after day after day. I'm not condoning the leaving of this lady on the floor for hours , but i do understand it. As for the other patients - they were in an emergency psych. ward - no - they aren't thinking of anything outside of themselves, and i wouldn't expect them to. Nor would anyone else who has experience in this area. The media was making hay while the sun shone, to make this event bigger than it was. By saying that the other patients should have done something while they themselves were in crisis is unrealistic.

As for the staff - they should have checked on her when she first fell out of the chair. And then left her there if she was ok.

When i worked in an er (regular), I soon discovered that some people are drama queens - they are going to die if someone isn't attending them every moment. For example - i had a patient that i went to get from the car with a wheelchair. He was complaining of chest pain. As i pushed him into the er he started to slide out of the chair. I told him if he hit the floor he was going to have to stand up himself because i wasn't picking him up. He called me a bitch and straightened up - guess what - he wasn't having a heart attack. Of course, of all the people i had taken from a car with heart attacks , not one had slid from the w/c - they wanted help -and falling on the floor wasn't going to get them help. They stuck to that chair like a gymnist sticking their landing.

All this sounds a little cold - and it probably is, but if staff buy into patient dramatics one or two patients can tie up staff while the quiet ones get no help.

As for universal health care - i have a friend who makes a good living running his own business - but he can't afford health insurance. He needs a knee arthroscopy, and prostate surgery. He can't afford them. So, he puts up with knees that have fragments of bone floating in them, and getting up every two hours to pee. He had heart surgery and still gets bills from the hospital threatening to sue him for nonpayment. From his heart surgery he takes pills that cost over $400 a month. He gets the same pills from India for a fourth of that - and that is illegal ... Whats he to do? He isn't a bum - he would rather have health insurance and get these things taken care of. And going to a public hospital doesn't stop him from getting the bills.

He makes too much for welfare, but not enough to afford insurance - so he is screwed. For the people who are in this bracket, universal health care would be a blessing.

And just for interest - i spoke to an anaethesiologist the other day who had just got out of school - she had gone to school for literally 12 years to get to where she is. She is 31 and just getting out into private practise. Doctors work for every penny they make.

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