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The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:13:56 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Taking a stroll through the memory banks of my mind this morning I hit on a conversation that I had with a dominant quite a number of years ago. Although I don't remember the exact wording I think my recollection of the gist of the conversation is pretty accurate.

We were talking about how strength is a characteristic most often connected with dominance...and not nearly as often connected with submission. I was surprised when he said something along the lines of submissives being far stronger than dominants in his opinion. When I asked him to explain he told me that he could only explain from his own perspective (obviously). He said that he felt that submissives were actually the stronger of the equation because when he really examined it he had to admit to himself that we do things that he could never find the strength to do. He could never find the strength to make himself so completely vulnerable to the will of another, to be bound and helpless, to allow someone to inflict such levels of pain upon their being, to take the pain. He could never find the strength to override his own desires and wants to commit to putting another's wants and desires first. He could never find the strength to do things for another that he didn't wish to do just because it was their wish that he do them. He could never find the strength to give up the control of the direction of his life to another.

I countered with the weight of the responsibility of his position in a relationship and that I thought it takes an awful lot of strength to bear that weight. He responded by saying that in addition to the strength required to do all of the things he could never find the strength to do...that I also had the strength within me to do all the things that he does. I was puzzled by what he meant but he went on to explain that many submissives possess all of the common sense, intelligence and strength to be the one "in charge" if they choose to also...they just choose the more passive position. But even making such a choice to defer to another when you know that "you could have it all your way" shows a strength that he felt he didn't possess himself.

I'd like to know what others think...

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:19:55 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		I agree whole heartedly that a submissive is a very strong individual, though I dont think I would go as far as to say the stronger. I would definately say equally as strong, though in an opposite direction. It takes an enormous amount of strength to put someone else ahead of you. It takes an enormous amount of strength to take control of someone other than yourself as well.
People do forget, though, that a submissive is not a weak person simply becasue they are commanded by someone else. Some are, granted, some are commanded becasue they are incapable of doing it themselves. However, there are some who have taken all that they are and willingly handed it to someone else to make both members of the pair better people.

DV


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VampiresLair

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:26:31 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline 		A Dominant's strengths and a sub's strengths are very different and in a perfect world they are doing the dovetail-dance in two-point harmony to the Dommes delectible drum beat.  



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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:41:10 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I personally would prefer to believe that there is an equal strength between a Dom and and a sub. However as in anything there probably are relationships out there where the sub is the stronger and vice versa. As long as the relationship is working and healthy it's all good.


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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:43:32 AM   
kallisto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin


that we do things that he could never find the strength to do. He could never find the strength to make himself so completely vulnerable to the will of another, to be bound and helpless, to allow someone to inflict such levels of pain upon their being, to take the pain. He could never find the strength to override his own desires and wants to commit to putting another's wants and desires first. He could never find the strength to do things for another that he didn't wish to do just because it was their wish that he do them. He could never find the strength to give up the control of the direction of his life to another. 

the responsibility of his position in a relationship and that I thought it takes an awful lot of strength to bear that weight. He responded by saying that in addition to the strength required to do all of the things he could never find the strength to do...that I also had the strength within me to do all the things that he does. I was puzzled by what he meant but he went on to explain that many submissives possess all of the common sense, intelligence and strength to be the one "in charge" if they choose to also...they just choose the more passive position. But even making such a choice to defer to another when you know that "you could have it all your way" shows a strength that he felt he didn't possess himself.

I'd like to know what others think...


I agree .. but I don't agree that the submissive is the stronger of the 2.   Lots of subs nowadays wear 2 hats.  That of the sub in their private life and that of an "in charge" person in their professional life.   It takes a lot of strength to be able to possess the wants, desires and abilities to be able to do both.   But in the same token I think it takes a stronger Dom to be able to "control" a sub who is strong - to take control of another person..   

Both "strengths" working in tandem creates the balance needed to sustain the relationship.   

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:54:20 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto
But in the same token I think it takes a stronger Dom to be able to "control" a sub who is strong - to take control of another person..   


I disagree. D/s relationships shouldn't be battlegrounds where the stronger "wins". If your desire is to be submissive and you are committed to that then it shouldn't take a stronger dominant to strongarm it out of you.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 7:58:17 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		I agree that a submissive has to be a strong person.  Everyone has their own strengths, though, and as has already been said here, it's when the strengths and weaknesses mesh that a solid relationship forms.

There are plenty of dominants, myself among them, who are perfectly capable of taking what we dish out.  I don't think that a submissive's *need* for pain, control, etc. makes them a stronger person, just a *different* one.  I have no submission in me.  I respect it highly in others, and understand that it does not come from weakness, but from a different mindset. 

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:11:46 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		It takes strength to be a Dominant, it also takes strength to be a submissive, they are different facets, different aspects of strength coming out in different ways but BOTH are strong individuals. You can't one is genericly stronger than the other because You are compairing dis-similar aspects... which is better, apples or oranges? They are both fruit but they are to different to be directly compaired.

What makes Me chuckle sometimes is those who lable slaves as weak doormats... when some of the strongest people I have ever met have been slaves. Not a generic statement, but a personal observation about those I have met.... I see it taking greater strength to be a slave than to be just a sub.... to face the challenge of giving herself compleatly into the hands of someone she trusts rather than horsetrading and giving the bits she likes whilst retaining the bits she is scared of or finds difficult.


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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:16:17 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		I agree with the guy. I tried being a sub a long time ago-could not do it.
 
I'm far too much of a control freak to let someone else call the shots. I want to live life my way-and I will chase away people who try to interfere with that. I do have to admire people who can take the second lead and be happy-but only as long as I know they are not doing it out of a lack.

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:21:06 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm not sure about "stronger" of the two.  It hasn't worked that way in all of My dynamics.  It's definitely depended on the ones involved.  I was certainly stronger than My first slave, and definitely stronger than pet.

When it comes to clip, however, I definitely see his inner strength as more than Mine.  As was stated, it isn't just the submissive in him.  Yes, bending to the will of another and giving yourself to them takes a great of strength and fortitude, but I also have to look at the person that he is.  He's been to war three times, possibly soon to be four (still hoping not).  He just recently became a licensed nurse, but has been in the medical field for years.  He's been separated from his family, seen more than I hope to God that I will never see, and more that I wouldn't dare to mention. 

Yet, he kneels to Me.  Opens himself up to Me.  Allows Me in where he would never let anyone else go.

How could I ever think that he wasn't the stronger one?


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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:21:32 AM   
missturbation


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Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I agree with the guy. I tried being a sub a long time ago-could not do it.
 
I'm far too much of a control freak to let someone else call the shots. I want to live life my way-and I will chase away people who try to interfere with that. I do have to admire people who can take the second lead and be happy-but only as long as I know they are not doing it out of a lack.


Just out of pure curiosity who would you say is stronger of these two....
 
A control freak Dom such as yourself?
Or
A Sub / slave who has a 'dominant job'?

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:23:37 AM   
Leatherist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

I agree with the guy. I tried being a sub a long time ago-could not do it.
 
I'm far too much of a control freak to let someone else call the shots. I want to live life my way-and I will chase away people who try to interfere with that. I do have to admire people who can take the second lead and be happy-but only as long as I know they are not doing it out of a lack.


Just out of pure curiosity who would you say is stronger of these two....
 
A control freak Dom such as yourself?
Or
A Sub / slave who has a 'dominant job'?


The one who actually makes things happen.

I don't have a lot of respect for one who controls-but never acomplishes anything on thier own.

I think the term for that is "parasite"

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:27:46 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		 Thank you

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What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:28:45 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		What he was missing is the energy it takes to be dominant. I don't have that energy. So although I am capable of making decisions, it takes a lot more out of me than it does out of him. He can weigh factors dispassionately and make a decision. I can't, I agonize over how the people who will be affected by the decision will feel and I will make a decision that is best for every one else but me. I don't factor into decision making the stresses they place on me.

He does. So his decisions allow me to retain a lot more energy. Basically, it's as though his decision making process is  a hybrid getting 50mpg while mine's a gas guzzler getting 12. I can do it but I run dry a lot faster than he does.

We has this discussion ourselves in the beginning. I gave up, I'm never going to understand what he gets out of it, I'm just glad it's good enough for him and vice versa he feels the same about me.

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:34:54 AM   
JadeGeisha


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/18/2008
Status: offline 		My reply to the original post, without having read the thread:

I agree with the person who said the submissive has a great deal of strength. I switch. It takes more for me to submit, than it does for me to dominate. It takes a great deal more strength, will power, patience, etc for me to give myself over to someone, than it takes for me to have someone give themselves to me. In the submissive role there is fear, a feeling of insecurity (not that I'll be left in the cold, but just that I'll screw up), there's that vulnerability... and yet I overcome it because I revel in submitting to someone worthy of my gift of submission. In the Dominant role, I do work hard to be a good owner, a good top, a good Domme, and I always keep my sub's safety, happiness, and ability to thrive in mind... but it's easier.

Why would I switch, if the Domme role is easier? I get less out of it than I do by submitting.

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:35:00 AM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		i like to view it as equal in strength but opposite in choices

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:50:10 AM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings mistoferin,
 
Funny, i never thought of myself as being strong because i give myself completely to a Master, it just simply feels right. I'm far from brainless and weak, i can think for myself, but i don't feel comfortable having to be independent.
 
To me, the Master is the strong one, and as a Gorean slave, once i am collared or i beg his collar he will have complete ownership of me, my possessions and my rights including the right to simply walk away if things get tough. To me it takes tremendous strength to take over complete responsibility for another human being and i greatly admire those who are able to do so and do it well, that is, not taking advantage of the slave's vulnerability as one who owns nothing.
 
i wish you well,
 
phoenix

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:55:25 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		One looks rather good in Clothes that fit and/or suited for the person.  But never as good with the clothes don't fit or not suited for them.  I  think Dominance and Submission is much the same....  I find it rather easy to be Dominant... so easy in fact.. it is not something I have to consider trying to be... I just be Me... the rest sorts itself out.  But... If am trying to be what is not Me... well then.. that seems like alot of work and effort... and I just might not have the strength for that... I find that is the case with most people.. they just don't have the strength to be what they are not for any enduring amount of time.

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 8:56:38 AM   
sblady


Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:



I agree .. but I don't agree that the submissive is the stronger of the 2.   Lots of subs nowadays wear 2 hats.  That of the sub in their private life and that of an "in charge" person in their professional life.   


Such an accurate  statement!!   Because I wear two hats and my position in my professional life is very different than my personal life, I've often been told that I'm pretty dominant.   I had a conversation with my former Sir this morning and we were discussing issues I'm dealing with at work.  He stated "Wow, you're really going into Domme mode".  I immediately reminded him (for the gazillioneth time) that my professional life saps my energy.....energy which could be used to serve a Dominant, which is what I prefer.  I think it takes a certain type to be a Dom/me and "this girl" does not possess the energy. 

To the Op:  Sorry I went off slightly off topic, but Kallisto's quote really summed up how I feel.

I consider myself new to D/s and have a lot to learn regarding specific dynamics between a submissive and her Dom and can't really say who is stronger. 

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RE: The strength of a submissive - 6/28/2008 9:09:53 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
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quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds

i like to view it as equal in strength but opposite in choices

this slave completely agrees...being a Master or a slave requires strength, just in different areas of O/our lives. Each person and relationship is different, and that boils down to our choices.
Master Dragon's slave

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