RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (Full Version)

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Smith117 -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 2:26:29 AM)

I don't plan on doing any traveling out of the country anytime soon. However, if I did, I doubt I would be taking a computer.

If I *did* take a computer, I would do one of two things:
1) Mail it back to myself.
2) Make it be an "expendable" machine that I could use to upload to the web anything I wanted to keep...then using a program to wipe it when done and trash it. $400 machines generally suck, but for *my* purposes on that kind of trip, they just might be ideal.

As for flash cards and such from cameras....again, just bubble wrap 'em and mail 'em. No muss no fuss. When you get to customs and they say "give us your cards." You can just say "oh....I don't have any cards in here....sorry."




Termyn8or -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 5:09:47 AM)

You really do have nothing to hide. I thought DA's first post was a joke but upon further reflection I am not so sure.

In other words they find an email :

Hey Bob, let's go to Montana again !.

But if it is encrypted and they decrypt it they see Montana is some sort of a crime boss and there is a hit to be made or something like that.

Having been involved in enough shit in my life I can see this. Using substitute words is a game played by many, and to think that "they" don't know it would be foolish. Apart from the myriad of subjects I won't bring up in this forum, there are a few things I would not put in any email.

I used to go this place I called the "ranch". It was not a ranch, but the guy had a ranch style house and a huge yard. But he was a good friend and actually more radical than I. We did in fact talk about ways to overthrow the government, among alot of other things. This was an older gentleman who had quite a history. He and my lawyer almost started a bank, really. I learned alot there. But he was so much more radical than I that I probably shouldn't go into it but he is dead now.

He taught me how to gamble, or more aptly put, taught me how to turn a game of chance into a game of skill. One day he sends his Man Friday, Wickerman he called him, to the store to get a couple of gallons of bleach. The guy asks, just how much cleaning do you want to do ? Jim replied "It's not for cleaning dummy, you make bombs with it".

He had poker games, craps games, all kind of shit. He also had a legal for trade video poker machine and slot machine. When he finally took me to the track I listened to the Man very carefully and applied my type of mathematics to the enterprise and impressed him. I won big, at least big for my first time out.

But we seldom emailed each other, rarely talked on the phone, when I went there I was in his domain and of course could not get too drunk or anything, had to abide by his rules, but I had my own rules. When I went to the ranch I told my people to simply say that I was unavailable. Don't give out the number, nothing.

I learned alot there, he explained to me the difference between Jewish communism and Chinese communism. He advocated shooting cops at random. Being older he had quite a bit to say about "nigros" and alot of other things. He saw life differently and it may be a good thing that he is dead. He would not like life now, guaranteed, hell, I don't like it.

In life, he too learned some vestige of tolerance. He would tralk political issues with a Black Man, and one time he was telling me that he was impressed. He saw it as a good sign that people are waking up to the fact that we are getting totally screwed every which way we turn. They agreed on quite a few things.

Yup, when I was at the ranch I was unreachable. Only family and a few others even knew where it was or the phone number. Unless they had that house bugged, the only one who can tell you what went on there is me. Between the weed and the gambling they could've thrown all our asses in jail, if they knew. There is only one living person besides me who can tell you much about what went on at the ranch.

It was my getaway. The thing is, we almost never emailed each other, except maybe to send a picture or something. Email creates an electronic form of a paper trail. We chose not to do that. Phone calls were simple "You coming over ? ", "Yup". We knew better.

Consider everything you do online to be public, no exceptions. Period.

T




DomAviator -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 6:04:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


I can not emphasise strongly enough that you NOT encrypt your data.


Company guideline require that any Proprietary and/or Confidential documents ( AND any HIPPA covered information ) be encrypted for compliance with our security baselines.

We use a commercial product for the laptops, the idea of "Don't encrypt your data" is laughable.

Now, for Joe Blow, that might be an issue, but for Pros doing Business, it's crazy to *not* expect laptops to be encrypted or have encrypted directories.

You'd Bitch to High Hell if someone like some huge bank *didn't* encrypt the data, right?




I still maintain that the smarter solution is not to have the data resident on the hard drive rather than to encrypt it. If you do encrypt stuff - on a company lap top, that will probably have a "Property of  _____" label on it thats a different story. However, if  "Joe Shitt the Ragg Man" is trying to come through customs with volumes of encrypted otherwise innoucuous data it wll cause suspicion. For example, if my ex had done the whole PGP thing - people would really wonder why a teacher needs to encrypt a lesson plan. Ya know considering most people print them, keep them in a binder and leave them for the substitute teacher? Likewise, there is absolutely no reason on earth for me to justify encrypting exam prep material for the various pilot ratings - when the fucking FAA publishes the entire test question pool on their web site LOL

I have stuff that is encrypted / password protected / secure but it is on the Intranet not my notebook so I cant "lose it" and the bank example you used - of course I would bitch if it was unencrypted but they dont carry their network server through customs. I dont carry my server around either, I just connect to it... So even if my notebook was stolen or confiscated - I can buy a new one and connect to the intranet by logging into my company site with my username and password and clicking the appropriate option on the menu that pops up for people logged in as employees... :)

As for your question of

quote:

Are you willing to wager your freedom and liberty against the possibility that Internet Explorer had once downloaded a "FORBIDDEN PICTURE" in the background without your awareness or consent, and it's still floating around somewhere on the harddrive?

Do you think, "That's not mine" is going to fly?



Absolfuckinglutely! There was a case discussed on Fox News earlier this week. Apparently there is a piece of malware going around that downloads kiddie porn to peoples computers. The guy was initially arrested, but the charges were dropped when they found the trojan that does it. That case proves that saying "Thats Not Mine" will indeed fly, if it genuinely is not yours! There was no pattern of behavior, a review of the guys ISP records showed no visits to illegal sites, etc...I feel that I would have a hell of a lot easier time getting off the hook if I fell victim to something like that by having an open unencrypted notebook that they can freely examine, rather than resisting, encrypting, and then alas they finally find that and say AH HA! THIS IS WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO HIDE!!! Ya know sometimes honesty is the best policy with the cops... several years ago, during a traffic stop, a cop saw a little bit of of meth on the passenger seat. Obviously it wasnt mine so I immediately denied owning it, offered to take a drug test, offered to allow him to search the vehicle, etc...He says "If it isnt yours how do you explain it" and I came right out and told him that I picked up a hooker earlier that evening and showed him the reciept for the Notell Motel I rented. (I figured confessing to solicitation, was a better option than clamming up and taking a drug posesession.)   He laughed and said "yeah that will do it, they ditch their shit if they get nervous she probably thought you were a cop". Anyway, he put the meth in his shirt pocket, and even told me where the higher class hooker stroll and safer notels are because apparently I was lucky not to have been robbed at that one... Things would have gone a lot differently if I hadn't been cooperative, tried to hide it, refused to answer questions, tried to bullshit him etc... He knew damn well he couldnt get a possession conviction on a guy who doesnt use and who would test clean - even in hair going back months, and I didnt try to make his job hard. When you make yourself "look guilty" by trying to hide things then you are guilty in their eyes....





farglebargle -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 12:51:20 PM)

quote:

Apparently there is a piece of malware going around that downloads kiddie porn to peoples computers. The guy was initially arrested, but the charges were dropped when they found the trojan that does it.


Citation, please.




DomAviator -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 5:29:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Apparently there is a piece of malware going around that downloads kiddie porn to peoples computers. The guy was initially arrested, but the charges were dropped when they found the trojan that does it.


Citation, please.


I dont have a citation... It was on Fox News, during the "Fox and Friends" morning segment within the past week. They had the guy who was arrested as well as an IT consultant on...

Ok after a 30 second google search - here is a link to the story... There was much more on the video, which may be archived somewhere on the fox news web site... Anyway the guy was a Mass. state employee and they found that malware was to blame - not him.

http://www.kadn.com/news/technology/?feed=bim&id=20400759




NumberSix -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 5:34:37 PM)

I shall judge that with the veracity of your war record, and just say no.





JohnWarren -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 5:41:55 PM)

I was a "visiting scholar" for a year in China.  During that time, I taught and worked on my dissertation ("Chinese Television News: Both foreign and domestic")

When I was returning, the outgoing customs confiscated all of my floppy disks with the "explanation" that they might contain "Chinese secrets."  Fortunately, I had backups moving through various routes so I didn't lose a year of work.  Of course, the reality was the customs agents were stealing the disk to sell on the grey market.

It's so nice our country is learning from others.




Smith117 -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/29/2008 10:20:57 PM)

Today in in the July issue of Maxim magazine's cool stuff section, I saw the ideal "travel laptop" for what I was talking about. It costs $499, has an 8.9 inch screen and can either have a 120 GB or 160 GB hard drive. It appears to be the pefect "disposable" laptop, if one were so inclined. 




farglebargle -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 5:17:03 AM)

quote:


I dont have a citation... It was on Fox News, during the "Fox and Friends" morning segment within the past week.


That's not exactly credible then, is it?

Why would a Louisiana Fox affiliate be the only source for this, anyway...

Well, if you'd bet your freedom on something you heard on Fox News' Morning Show, then by all means -- Take whatever risks you feel appropriate...






Termyn8or -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 9:01:30 AM)

Well farg, as slanted and twisted as Faux news can be, I don't think they made this up. You have to see things in context, put it this way, if a liar ALWAYS lies, all you have to do is believe the opposite to have the truth. This does not work and liars know it.

Anyway DA as much as I hate to I have to agree about dealing with the cops. On labor day last year I was looking for a buddy's house that I had never driven to before and was having trouble finding it. I was suspicious enough to warrant a stop, actually I had to get gas after running around burning up a quarter tank, I was lurking all over the neighborhood and I was not happy that I had burned up all my gas. I gave it just a bit too much on the accelerator and peeled the tires.

So here I am drinking, all seven different kinds of illegal and got the tunes cranked. Of course they search you and they ask if they are going to find any needles or anything sharp. I said "No, but there is a joint in my cigarette pack".

In Ohio you can get a DUI from having just one beer. But they didn't give me one, and they didn't take me to jail, and they didn't even search my car ! I could've had 200 pounds in the trunk.

Now the thing is, if you are doing something wrong, don't hide evidence, get rid of it. I was a player for many years and I know what to say and what not to say. If they catch me with a bag of weed, they know not to even ask where I got it, I would just say "You know better than that". They know, all they can do is throw me in jail, the people out here might shoot me. How stupid do you expect me to be ?

I have always covered my ass, and I don't even care if that meth was actually your's. You maintain your life so in my view you can do any drug you want. Whether the hooker story is true or not (you actually did not say that it is), you did the right thing.

It is that kind of smarts that keep your ass out of the sling, unlike a buddy of mine who had to post 2 MILLION dollars bail. He got caught with 200 pounds. He did something wrong, and in my book it was not the pot, it was that somewhere along the line the wrong person knew too much. I mean what are the odds of a random traffic stop and all that, plus the guy was totally legal and owns a limo service. Ninety nine times out of a hundred he should have just got his ticket and went on his merry way.

Then we have the story of a few other people who also shall remain nameless here because they are still living. This was on the order of a thousand pounds. The Jack (courrier) was put in a rental car, and the weed in the trunk. They swapped trunk keys. Therefore it was believed that he did not have a key to the trunk, plausible deniability. Well I don't know what trick of fate caused this, but he got stopped and the wrong key worked. It is possible that rental car companies remove some of the tumblers from the trunk lock in case a customer loses the keys or something, like a poor Man's master key, or it was a very odd coincidence.

Well the people he worked for sent the proverbial lawyers guns and money to get him out. These are some big people. I believe it happened in Texas which is known for harsh drug laws. They found the best of the best lawyers and during the sitdown they asked him if he liked to play golf. He retorted "What, you want to buy me a set of golf clubs ?". No, not quite, "You get my boy out and you will have a golf COURSE".

Well money being what it is relating to justice, the lawyer got him off with a year and a half, and we are talking Texas here mind you. Without the immense resouces, he would have probably done 20 years or so.

Why did I bother to mention all this ? Because the game is not played how most people think. Money is a big factor, and so is what you say and do. Every cop out there has Judge Judy type training, they are looking for any attempts at obfuscation, a delay in answering. Red flags are quickly noticed, and then they act accordingly.

People who really know what they are doing will give them the flea, and then they don't find the elephant. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

As far as the computer goes, for example I have a shitload of bondage pictures, and some texts they might find disturbing, like the anarchist's cookbook, which I found not to be all that advanced. But this is not a laptop. There could be something damning in my internet cache, but I don't worry about it. The only place I might need a laptop is at work, and as far as I am concerned it can stay at work. And I don't even have a cellphone, nor do I want one.

People truly are their own worst enemy. I had to stop watching "Cops" because of the stupidity of some people. Lock up these idiots, not for their drugs or whatever, just keep them away from me, there is enough stupidity going on with people who I do hang with, not that I put up with it, but any stupid people you can get off the street, more power to you.

Here's one. A guy I talk to very rarely but I did build him a PC. I built him a really nice PC and his olady bought a cheap Compaq. Well he calls me up, on his he went to Google and typed in kiddie porn. Clicked on a link and got a page that said that his IP had been reported to the authorities. Of course that is bullshit, but he shut it down right away.

So what does the stupid fuck do next ? Goes to the olady and kid's PC and types the same thing and gets the same page. Now he wants me to reload both computers, wipe them out, a full FDISK and format.

Little does he know that it would be futile to do so. Whatever modem you have has an IP, your ISP can track even a dynamic IP, and will do so under court order. Your router has an IP, and I am not so sure that reloading the OS on a PC would change the IP of your actual computer.

How fucking stupid do you have to be to do something like this ? That's why I speak to him very rarely. In my 47 years I have removed all the drama from my life, and I'll be damned if I'll let anyone bring it back.

Just face it, we have no privacy. Once you understand that you are alot better prepared for life.

T




DomAviator -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 9:06:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:


I dont have a citation... It was on Fox News, during the "Fox and Friends" morning segment within the past week.


That's not exactly credible then, is it?

Why would a Louisiana Fox affiliate be the only source for this, anyway...

Well, if you'd bet your freedom on something you heard on Fox News' Morning Show, then by all means -- Take whatever risks you feel appropriate...





Apparently your bias against Fox leads you to ignore truth. The KADN link was not the "only source" for it it is the one I found "after a 30 second google search."

Perhaps you find this one form a trade journal for IT security professionals to be more to your liking...

http://www.scmagazineus.com/Malware-to-blame-for-porn-on-state-workers-laptop/article/111407/

Should you not like that the article mentions the name of the defendant, the district in which the case was heard etc so you can start there or with the web site of the local Pravda affilaite of your choice...

Any further research on this topic you can do yourself, using the search engine of  your choice, or I will gladly send you a cmail with a consulting retainer agreement billable at my customary hourly rate of $75 for "research". Then I will pay my $8.25 an hour assistant to get you all the links you want form non-Fox sources... [:D]




DomAviator -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 9:23:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or


I have always covered my ass, and I don't even care if that meth was actually your's. You maintain your life so in my view you can do any drug you want. Whether the hooker story is true or not (you actually did not say that it is), you did the right thing.



Term, actually the meth was NOT mine. I frankly dont understand the jollies that people get from that drug. I took the legal RX form (Dexedrine) during combat operations, issued by a Navy Flight Surgeon, and let me tell ya I dont understand why people would do it for fun. It made me jittery, cranky, nasty, paranoid and was not at all "pleasant". And that was the professionally made good stuff, not the back yard rot your teeth out give you pus oozing sores shit available on the street. So nope the meth wasnt mine... I stick to alcohol and nicotine. If I wasnt subject to testing I would smoke grass but alas I am so I cannot - growing up sucks LOL

The hooker story is true, thats why I had the reciept from the Notell Motel to show the cop...  I dont now if the dope was hers or not, I was in Denver and it was a rental car so who the fuck knows where it came from. But see thats the point - reason prevails. I gave he cop a cooperative and polite explanation and I got a walk. In fact, he didnt even mess with me for the original traffic stop. Had I started arguing, hiding , lying, being evasive etc I would have went down... Admittedly I would have beat the rap cause no DA would try to prove posession on someone with my background, who tests clean - even in hair which can show up for months, when it was found in a rental car etc... I decided better to admit to the solicitation, which was true, than to hang (figuartively) on the posession. Instead, the cop appreciated the honesty and told me where the better hookers were! LOL




pixidustpet -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 12:51:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
I can not emphasise strongly enough that you NOT encrypt your data. There is no such thing as encryption that the DOD or NSA cannot break and if you are running an abnormal encryption you will "look guilty" and will bring on further scrutiny. Once they break the encryption even a simple e-mail like:

"Hey Kevers can we go to Galveston for the weekend cause I feel like Joe's Crab Shack. Ill bring my leopard teddy and the his and hers KY."

will be read as:

"Project Leopard is a GO. Break. Target Galveston Cruise Ship Terminal. Break. Binary agent secured and ready for use. Break. Commence operation this weekend break. Authenticate CRAB, I say again CRAB End Message."



now that's just silly.

if you're up to the jaunt to galveston, go to guido's.  MUCH better seafood!!

kitten, back in houston




DomAviator -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 1:41:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

now that's just silly.

if you're up to the jaunt to galveston, go to guido's.  MUCH better seafood!!

kitten, back in houston


LOL Actually I like Chilos and Baytown best... BUT the woman in question is an absolute idiot. (She was CONCIEVED in Gilleys and raised in LaPorte need I say more LOL) Hey on our first date I took her to the Rainbow Lodge and she asked where we were going I said "Somplace nice.." she said "The Waffle House?" She has also asked a sommelier if he had any Boone, tipped an airline Captain, and when served a lobster commented "Gawd Damn! Thats the biggest dang Mud Bug I ever saw!" God is she beautiful though... [:D] 

Now for the Truly Scary part - starting in August she will be teaching 2nd grade in a public school!  [sm=rofl.gif]




farglebargle -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 3:32:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator
...on this topic you can do yourself, using the search engine of  your choice, or I will gladly send you a cmail with a consulting retainer agreement billable at my customary hourly rate of $75 for "research". Then I will pay my $8.25 an hour assistant to get you all the links you want form non-Fox sources... [:D]


No reply was necessary or desired. I dismissed you with:

quote:


Well, if you'd bet your freedom on something you heard on Fox News' Morning Show, then by all means -- Take whatever risks you feel appropriate...


That was my final word to you on this topic.





stef -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 4:11:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That was my final word to you on this topic.

Is this your super ultra mega final word then?

~stef




farglebargle -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 4:19:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

That was my final word to you on this topic.

Is this your super ultra mega final word then?

~stef



With some people, the best thing to do is just disengage and move on.

Ever hear the phrase, "The game isn't worth the candle"?

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-wor2.htm






pixidustpet -> RE: Seizing Laptops and Cameras Without Cause (6/30/2008 5:04:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomAviator

quote:

ORIGINAL: pixidustpet

now that's just silly.

if you're up to the jaunt to galveston, go to guido's.  MUCH better seafood!!

kitten, back in houston


LOL Actually I like Chilos and Baytown best... BUT the woman in question is an absolute idiot. (She was CONCIEVED in Gilleys and raised in LaPorte need I say more LOL) Hey on our first date I took her to the Rainbow Lodge and she asked where we were going I said "Somplace nice.." she said "The Waffle House?" She has also asked a sommelier if he had any Boone, tipped an airline Captain, and when served a lobster commented "Gawd Damn! Thats the biggest dang Mud Bug I ever saw!" God is she beautiful though... [:D] 

Now for the Truly Scary part - starting in August she will be teaching 2nd grade in a public school!  [sm=rofl.gif]


good gods that IS frightening!!  ya just cant fix stupid.  [;)]

kitten




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