People Bitching About Gas Prices....

People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid

Message

DomAviator -> People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 8:18:41 AM)
Just an observation... All day every day I hear people bitching about the price of gas at the pump... Profiteering by the oil companies, Bush cronies raping the public etc... Did anyone ever stop to think how truly fucking CHEAP gasoline is? You are talking about a product that is found on a hit or miss basis by companies that spend small fortunes on geophysical data. They employ an army of geologists, geophysicists, and engineers to possibly find the product. If they do find it, and the formation is actually produceable, then they lose 1/8 right off the top to lease royalties. Then they get a product that is essentially a witches brew of hydrocarbons, sand, mud, salt water, etc.... They have to pull the hydrocarbons out of it, and then truck / tanker / pipeline it to a refinery. As if drilling rigs (particularly offshore) and pipelines arent enough, take a look at a refinery someday! Drive through Pasadena Texas and you will see MILES AND MILES of refineries with I cant even begin to fathom how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of feet of welded alloy steel piping that must be maintained, replaced, inspected etc by an army of well paid workers. After all, essentially a refinery is a giant still, where they BOIL and condense volatile hydrocarbons. Want to boil gasoline? Naptha? Benzene? Propane? Octane? Does that sound "smart or safe"? Once they finally ring some gasoline out of a 42 gallon barrel of produced shit (the unusable brine etc which they had to pay to dispose of, and 1/8 of the hydrocarbons which came out of their pockets right at the wellhead) Then they get to store this volatile explosive prone to evaporation product and to ultimately ship it to every little mom and pop station in america with a fleet of trucks, barges, pipelines, tank farms etc all of which cost megabucks to build and maintain. After their product gets marked up a couple of times by various middle men, taxed to shit, and marked up for retail sale - it brings as of yesterdays fill up $3.77 a gallon at the pump... Unbelieveable people will gladly fork over $3.50 for a cup of starbucks coffee but they bitch about a gallon of explosive liquid ripped from the bowels of the earth using billions of dollars of infrastructure and then processed and transported with billions more... You know - If you think gasoline is bad, try buying AvGas or Jet A sometime... Yesterday I dispatched a flight in a Lear, $980.83 fuel burn in the first hour... (1100 pounds per hour at that take off weight / 6 ppg / $5.35 gal for Jet-A) Even a little Cessna 172 burns 9.5 gph at $4.99 a gallon. Yet Im not bitching, the oil companies do an amazing job producing their product for the price they do. I pay $1.49 for 2 liters of Mountain Dew and thats sugar water! It doesnt take an offshore rig, a fleet of helicopters and crew boats, a 200 mile pipeline maintined by teams of divers and ROV's and a multibillion dollar refinery to produce that... Its a sense of entitlement. Why shouldnt the oil industry make money. I charge for my services, why shouldnt they?

MusicalBoredom -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 10:31:08 AM)
I don't really have a problem with oil companies making money even though I wish gas were cheaper. I also wish a lot of things were cheaper. What I do have a problem with is saying that it's the environmentalist's fault or that it's the government's fault. I'm sure cost is dictated by tons of factors. I'm also seeing record profits in those industries. I don't believe for a second that all of the blame of others comes from oil companies. It seems that both political parties, talk show hosts, "news" channels, etc. love to tell us who the "real" villain is since the price of gas affects so many people. It's just another hot button to push to get people to listen to them. It's not any different from how they "save" us from evil mortgage brokers, welfare recipients, internet predators, psycho moms or whatever else is the hot topic "eveilness" of the week.

RealityLicks -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 10:32:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator You know - If you think gasoline is bad, try buying AvGas or Jet A sometime... Yesterday I dispatched a flight in a Lear, $980.83 fuel burn in the first hour... (1100 pounds per hour at that take off weight / 6 ppg / $5.35 gal for Jet-A) Even a little Cessna 172 burns 9.5 gph at $4.99 a gallon. What a steaming pile of horseshit. When will you start making sense? Anytime this century? Because it's getting very tiring wading through the heaps of crap you churn out, let me tell ya. Everyone knows a Lear will only smoke $650 in the first hour, $700, tops. Who d'you think you're talking to, a bunch of amateurs?

GimpinDenial -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 10:37:41 AM)
<fast reply> Seriously, because when you think about it, we get what...eight percent of our oil from the middle east? Basically, what the oil companies are doing is RAPING the market....they are charging so much because they can (and because Bush is allowing them)....

pahunkboy -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 10:54:26 AM)
Having worked at an i80 gas station for 7 years, I can tell you people EXPECT plenty, cheap, prompt gas. I was told my price was "highway robbery" $1.31, 1990-1997. I been thinking there are truths that are true even if they are not. Group think, if you will. So how does the lone indiviual flourish under "group think"? When I was out on errands today I popped into the thrift store. Junk. As in garbage. So what are the options? Well- people will have to team up as we go forward. Go to the store with a nieghbor. Part of the blame is big business. Cars get the bad mileage they do. Well now we see that gas may not be plentiful. So Detroit is hurrying hybrids. But why did they wait? It is not relevant if congress ups the CAFE standards. People will not buy gas guzzlers 2008, or likely in the next 5 years. People SEE that $50 doesnt take them far. This is an expense that re-curs...not a 1 time or seasonal expense. As to going ga ga for the oil industry, not really. Chalk it up to living in a modern society. Of the surguries I had, now that is ga ga. How about 1 of my attorneys who made life better? Then perhaps when I worked in group homes- there could have been days where my service was appreciated. The trouble is- we are a tribe -[as in nation] or are we a globe? What is optimal for the tribe, is not optimal for the globe. being that all the world wants western comforts, we cant accommodate 6+ billion people/ So yes and no on the cheap gas.,,,,

Owner59 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 10:56:00 AM)
When Bush took office,Exxon was earning 8 billion a year,free and clear.(gas was a about a buck thirty ,to a buck fifty a gal) Last year,they cleared 40 billion dollars.(the average today is 4.50 a gal,three times more than in 2000) Did they do 5 times more business or somehow reduce their overhead by 32 billion bucks? Or did they rape us,legally? That money is our money.Only a republican would defend this. Damm right, people are going to bitch! It used to cost me 25-30 bucks to fillup.Now(within 7 years) it`s close to a hundred to fill my work truck.The higher price of energy is making everything else go up too,including food. Not everyone is as wealthy,endowed,happening or as powerful as you, domaviator. For some people,paying 3 times more to drive or heat their home makes a huge difference. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Exxon has made more money that any company in history,and still,the republicans want to give Exxon taxpayer funded subsidies. Could someone make sense of that?

Irishknight -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:03:24 AM)
Damn! Now I'm having to agree with Owner. Oh well .... PREACH ON!!!! I'll be in the "Amen section" checking out the hotties in the choir loft.

SteelofUtah -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:08:05 AM)
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/ This is what others pay around the world truth be told we are in the middle. Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48 Norway Oslo $6.27 Italy Milan $5.96 Denmark Copenhagen $5.93 Belgium Brussels $5.91 Sweden Stockholm $5.80 United Kingdom London $5.79 Germany Frankfurt $5.57 France Paris $5.54 Portugal Lisbon $5.35 Hungary Budapest $4.94 Luxembourg $4.82 Croatia Zagreb $4.81 Ireland Dublin $4.78 Switzerland Geneva $4.74 Spain Madrid $4.55 Japan Tokyo $4.24 Czech Republic Prague $4.19 Romania Bucharest $4.09 Andorra $4.08 Estonia Tallinn $3.62 Bulgaria Sofia $3.52 Brazil Brasilia $3.12 Cuba Havana $3.03 Taiwan Taipei $2.84 Lebanon Beirut $2.63 South Africa Johannesburg $2.62 Nicaragua Managua $2.61 Panama Panama City $2.19 Russia Moscow $2.10 Puerto Rico San Juan $1.74 Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91 Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78 Egypt Cairo $0.65 Nigeria Lagos $0.38 Venezuela Caracas $0.12

DomAviator -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:10:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 Or did they rape us,legally? That money is our money.Only a republican would defend this. Damm right, people are going to bitch! It used to cost me 25-30 bucks to fillup.Now(within 7 years) it`s close to a hundred to fill my work truck.The higher price of energy is making everything else go up too,including food. Not everyone is as wealthy,endowed,happening or as powerful as you, domaviator. For some people,paying 3 times more to drive or heat their home makes a huge difference. I realize the prices have gone up, but my point is they were artificially low to begin with.... When you sit back and think about what it costs to produce and distribute the product, the price of gas is a hell of a lot cheaper than many other liquids we dont hesitate to pay for. Im being quite serious here, I had to drive past a refinery on my way home last night and I was admiring the engineering. They are really amazing to look at, especially at night. I was looking at all the lights and it dawned on me that if I had just the money they spent installing the lightbulbs at that refinery - I could probably retire for several lifetimes.... Im just wondering why people are incensed at paying $3.77 for a gallon of gasoline that required an army of engineers and scientists and billions of dollars of infrastructure to produce - but they dont bat an eye to hand over 1.50 for 2 liters of piss colored sugar water (Mountain Dew) or $3.50 for a fucking cup of coffee. As for Exxon's profits, those go to the people. It is a publically traded company, anyone can buy a piece of it. Plus, it is pretty hard to drive around Houston or Lousiana and not see some industry that depends on the oil company. Whether its the BBQ resteraunt across the street from the refinery, the welders who come from all over the west to work on those refineries and line, the truckers bringing stuff to and from, the roughnecks, the rig workers, the divers, the crewboat people, the helicopter pilots, or the refinery workers themselves.... The booming oil biz means a booming gulf states economy...

MusicalBoredom -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:20:45 AM)
I think what I'm saying is that in most businesses, the goal is to maximize profit and the company doing it says "hey look at us, we are making as much as we can and are proud of it." I wish the industries on which we are dependent simply did the same thing. In my mind that includes oil, medical, utilities and such. (Mind you that my personal ethos for the companies I own is more along the lines of "charge a fair price for the best service you can deliver.") I can just hear the new ad campaign for the oil companies now in the somber manly voice used to make us feel secure: "We charge you more because we can." Then the flag waving or something. Damn I should have been in advertising.

kdsub -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:32:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/ This is what others pay around the world truth be told we are in the middle. I don't think this is a good representation of the actual price... For instance some of these nations use the tax on fuel to help pay medical insurance... The US does not... So the benefits offset the costs... there is a listing on the net before taxes...but even that is misleading because some countries...like China subsidize the cost of gasoline. What scares me is the world is depending too much on one power source… This gives the producers and suppliers too much power and allows them to dictate price. In the US case it has also shaped our foreign policy...and not for the better. Butch

christine1 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:48:03 AM)
it doesnt' make sense to compare gas prices to a cup of starbucks or a 2 liter of soda, might as well compare the price of gas to what an ounce of my lipstick costs. i can't put coffee or lipstick or soda or horse piss for that matter into my car and get to work on it. for most people, gas is a necessity...coffee and horse piss are most definitely not.

Owner59 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 11:52:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/ This is what others pay around the world truth be told we are in the middle. Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48 Norway Oslo $6.27 Italy Milan $5.96 Denmark Copenhagen $5.93 Belgium Brussels $5.91 Sweden Stockholm $5.80 United Kingdom London $5.79 Germany Frankfurt $5.57 France Paris $5.54 Portugal Lisbon $5.35 Hungary Budapest $4.94 Luxembourg $4.82 Croatia Zagreb $4.81 Ireland Dublin $4.78 Switzerland Geneva $4.74 Spain Madrid $4.55 Japan Tokyo $4.24 Czech Republic Prague $4.19 Romania Bucharest $4.09 Andorra $4.08 Estonia Tallinn $3.62 Bulgaria Sofia $3.52 Brazil Brasilia $3.12 Cuba Havana $3.03 Taiwan Taipei $2.84 Lebanon Beirut $2.63 South Africa Johannesburg $2.62 Nicaragua Managua $2.61 Panama Panama City $2.19 Russia Moscow $2.10 Puerto Rico San Juan $1.74 Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91 Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78 Egypt Cairo $0.65 Nigeria Lagos $0.38 Venezuela Caracas $0.12 A fair price isn`t the issue,really. It`s volatility. That`s the fucker. A market that just goes up and up or a roller coaster ride that always seems to favor the rise,is the problem. It`s the unknown and unpredictability of the energy market that hurts people. People will pay a fair price but want stability.They don`t want a roller coaster ride,in any market or commodity.People can predict and factor in to the bottom line only so much. After a point though,lower consumer confidence and apathy set in. There`s even a kind of Stockholm syndrome ,where after being fleeced by oil companies,victims are defending and sticking up for them.[;)] And there`s the "Enron Loophole"

Politesub53 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 12:11:13 PM)
Steel you must have quoted an old chart. UK Unleaded is almost $9 a gallon. In last weeks fuel strike one garage was charging almost $15 a gallon. i think the UK gallon is slightly larger than the US gallon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/7456458.stm

Owner59 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 12:22:03 PM)
A funny aspect about the OP,corporate America and republicans,is after the fleecing,they want us to STFU about it.lol This OP is actually whining about citizens rightfully voicing their complaints about getting it in the neck. They want us to just take it and are somehow miffed that anyone would bitch.WTF? How arrogant is that? The shup up and take it routine, is getting out.

Archer -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 12:22:06 PM)
Owner See lesson on profit vs profit margin It is entirly too simple minded to try to compare gross profit numbers, as demagogery has had folks doing so often. When Exxon made 8 billion for the year 2000 they sold about 64 billion worth of product. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_Jan_24/ai_69434810 When Exxon made 40 billion for the year 2007 they sold about $378 billion worth of product. http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=d8n0vrd80&show_article=1 They made 5 (40 profit /8 profit) times the money because they sold 5.56 (378 rev /64 rev) times the product.

popeye1250 -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 1:45:20 PM)
If everyone was making $100k per year they wouldn't be complaining, would they?

hizgeorgiapeach -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 1:49:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RealityLicks quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator You know - If you think gasoline is bad, try buying AvGas or Jet A sometime... Yesterday I dispatched a flight in a Lear, $980.83 fuel burn in the first hour... (1100 pounds per hour at that take off weight / 6 ppg / $5.35 gal for Jet-A) Even a little Cessna 172 burns 9.5 gph at $4.99 a gallon. What a steaming pile of horseshit. When will you start making sense? Anytime this century? Because it's getting very tiring wading through the heaps of crap you churn out, let me tell ya. Everyone knows a Lear will only smoke $650 in the first hour, $700, tops. Who d'you think you're talking to, a bunch of amateurs? Perhaps not Amatures, but certainly not someone knows the Practical differences between what Optimum Specs and Actual Performance are in modern aircraft. I've never seen you mention anything along the lines of being involved in the Aviation industry in any capacity - not even as a privately rated pilot, like I am. Are you rated, and just haven't said anything about being such? Perhaps you've built an ultralight, which don't require certification? (And which also don't fly at the same altitudes, weight capacities, or speeds as even the Piper and Cessna puddlejumpers that I fly, much less the capacities of a Lear V or VI.) What qualifications other than publicized specs and a calculator do you have? If you're going to call bullshit on something concerning an Aviation specific (like what a fuel bill costs for the operator)- I want to know what your qualifications are As A Fellow Pilot. (My own qualifications? Single Engine Land, Private/Instrument, with high performance engine and retractable gear sign offs. I try to refrain from to much use of aviation specific acronyms for the sake of those who wouldn't have a clue what they mean.) Trimmed out and with the engine properly leaned out for peak Performance at altitude in the Piper Arrow that *I usually fly, I go through 9.62 g/hr, and the FBO that services General Aviation craft at my home airport is actually charging a bit More than what DA quoted - $5.17/gal for AvGas last time I went up for a couple of hours. I don't usually check JetA prices, since I don't fly jets, but they usually run about 60 to 80 cents per gallon more, and have since the early 90s when I first got my rate. That average is At Cruise Altitude, with the engine running Lean rather than full rich, like it is at take off and landing, with only myself as a passenger and no luggage/baggage. My point? Published Optimum specs are no where near what happens in the real world for aircraft any more than Published Optimums for a car are. From the standpoint of someone who pays for AvGas on a Regular basis - who flies as something other than a passenger in the back of a commercial heavy - I'm surprised his fuel bill was that Low.

MrRodgers -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 2:31:36 PM)
Let's try for a little perspective on the whole oil market. * First, the supply of gasoline for cars and thus the price at the retail level is subject to extensive market manipulation. * Many 'private' retailers are selling their stations to the oil companies because they are being squeezed by a small profit margin. * The oil companies are oil brokers for 2/3 of our consumption with their 1/3 taking advantage of an international oil cartel. * Thus the oil companies make less money on oil and most of their profits on refinery of oil into gasoline, desiel, kerosene and other products. * Oil companies are also hedging via the futures market because of the volitility of prices thus acting in their own interest because 2/3 of their supply is purchased from the cartel. So...we get 2007 = $13 billion in futures, (paper) 2008 in 6 months = $260 billion in futures. THAT'S capitalism, money chasing paper...i.e. NOT invested in creating jobs or opening new markets by creating new firms but speculating. * Oil companies thus are very much enjoying the current situation and DO NOT want more oil production or more places to drill...they have enough now they are not drilling. NOTE: Out of a combined $32 TRILLION of gross economic production in the western hemisphere...there is $1 TRILLION of that or 3% in 'at risk' investment in new technologies that are creating markets and jobs. Some claim only 2%. * Oil companies are NOT developing BY RIGHT...33 MILLION acres of the 44 MILLION acres NOW under lease. (Utah, Montana, Wyoming and the Florida gulf) They don't want to as they prefer Alaska (some of which is EXPORTED to Japan) while the republicans carry their water to congress for that and NOT to open the gulf. They have gulf oil under lease now...they want a new source like Alaskan oil. Do I really need to tell you why ? Do I need to tell you why we are REALLY in Iraq and why McCain wants us to be there...forever ? * In 2007 oil companies took 126,000 bbls./day OUT of domestic production that now makes 2 million bbls OUT of production since 2000. Small but still contributing to REDUCING supply. * Iraq is producing about 2 MILLION bbls/day LESS than they could IF WE were serious about getting them back up to speed. * The Russians are again fucking with western businesses as with the latest attempt to kick out BP and is years away from full production depriving millions/day. It is due to the oilgarchs and leftist inherent incompetance of Russia and Venezuala (the latter...since kicking out western cos.) are producing and est. 6-8 million bbls/day LESS than they might otherwise. * The price of GAS is higher here than in any 'consuming' or non-producing country as almost all of other's 'prices' are taxes. We have the lowest taxes, and thus when excluded...the highest price per gallon of gas.

thornhappy -> RE: People Bitching About Gas Prices.... (6/19/2008 3:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach I've never seen you mention anything along the lines of being involved in the Aviation industry in any capacity - not even as a privately rated pilot, like I am. He's frequently mentioned it, just search his prior posts. thornhappy

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875