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RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 10:46:01 AM

shorty21

Posts: 126
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: Des Moines
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smith117

That's a good point. Can't gripe about the vice tax when taxes are how the ininsured get medical care.

Now if only those of us who are uninsured ACTUALLY got insurance of some form...that'd be great...but that another topic. I personally am a smoker but have no issue going outside as I am a mother as well. I do not smoke in my own home because of my child. I don't smokein my vehicle either. That is my choice. Iowa doesnt really have any set laws yet. There are a few places who have become either non smoking or have a very well ventilated area for the smokers...That way everyone is happy for the most part.

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(in reply to Smith117)

Post #: 21

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 10:50:47 AM

MusicalBoredom

Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am just wondering why you have an aversion to sin taxes?... I see nothing wrong with them as long as they are voted on by the majority.

Butch

I don't have any aversion to them at all. As I said in post (I think), I'm perfectly ok with them.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 22

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 11:02:24 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am just wondering why you have an aversion to sin taxes?... I see nothing wrong with them as long as they are voted on by the majority.

Butch

I don't have any aversion to them at all. As I said in post (I think), I'm perfectly ok with them.

I'm sorry I should have clicked on the OP I meant that to Pinksugarsub

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)

Post #: 23

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 11:12:40 AM

MusicalBoredom

Posts: 620
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: Louisiana/New York
Status: offline

No worries. I should have realized.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 24

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 11:50:02 AM

Irishknight

Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

I remember when I was still smoking, most places provided us a seperate breakroom or even an outside are in which to smoke. Several places had these little smokers' huts that were made out of plexiglass and sat outside. Inevitably, a non smoker would come into these areas and complain about the smoke. DUUUUUH! Its a smoking area.
I am a former smoker who still misses them occassionally. I have no problem with sin taxes. I proudly pay them on my booze. Where I have a problem is these places where it is illegal to smoke in a bar, a restaurant, on the sidewalks and just about anywhere else. As long as the city, county. state and feds are getting their cut, people should be allowed somewhere to smoke. I have no problem with it being a seperate place but don't treat them like animals or criminals.

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)

Post #: 25

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 10:35:54 PM

pinksugarsub

Posts: 1224
Status: offline

O, i forgot a group of P/pl who might engage in this kind of political activism: P/pl who have a smoking fetish.

Picture of smoking woman:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk135/linda_mcgoo/smokingwoman.jpg

http://links.smokesigs.com/

It's not a fetish i know much about...evidentially it's predominaely M/men who want to watch W/women smoking.

(There seems to be an infinite number of fetishes.)

To S/some P/pl who posted:

Can't Y/you read?

The Op said 'this is not an Op about smoking'.

O, well, i suppose the hijack was inevitable. Evidentially S/some P/pl cannot see the word 'tobacco' and not go off on a rant about their hatred of smoking/smokers.

To the P/pl who posted about sin taxes:

Here are some issues presented by their use as revenue streams for governments at all levels:

1. This is a form of 'regressive' tax, meaning it is imposed at a higher effective rate on the poor than the wealthy.

2. The increase in 'sin taxes' have an adverse effect on the revenues of companies that manufacture or provide the subject of the tax. Higher bed taxes -- fewer tourists.

3. Very high sin taxes can create a 'black market' opportunity for criminals.

4. Use of 'sin tax' revenue streams to fund recurring budget items, such as corrections, is a common government folly, especially as taxes on property, etc., continue to decline.

A/anyone seriously believe that adopting a Lottery has enhanced education in any state?

A/anyone believe that the states who enjoyed the billions in money damages from the tobacco litigation used that revenue wisely?

Sin taxes are inherently unreliable income streams used to meet fixed or rising government budget items. As they fail to meet predicted levels, governments are forced to cut back on essential services any way possible.

For a discussion of the evils of sin taxes, see the following link:

http://www.ctkidslink.org/pub_detail_159.html

See also:

quote:

The First Law of Demand
The First Law of Demand, the central principle in market
economics, recognizes an inverse relationship between
price and quantity. Holding everything else constant, an
increase in a product’s price leads to a decrease in its quantity
sold. Economists present this concept graphically in
the demand curve (see Figure 1 on page 3); a downward
sloping curve with price plotted on the vertical axis and
quantity plotted on the horizontal axis.

http://search.abanet.org/search?q=%22sin+taxes%22&btnG=Go&entqr=3&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&sort=score&entsp=0&client=default_frontend&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=default_frontend

Click on 'Newsletter'; the second item listed.

pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/17/2008 11:05:38 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/17/2008 11:23:15 PM

DomAviator

Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline

We have no smoking laws in certain communities here, and I dont patronize places that choose to honor them. I will either cross the town line to do business where smoking is legal or I will patronize the places that choose to ignore the law.

In my business, despite the "smoke free workplace law", I smoke in my office and also allow smoking in the breakroom and conference room. Depending on the situation, I also smoke and/or allow smoking in the hangar. (if someone is refilling an oxygen bottle or working on a fuel system of course not, but if we are test running an engine or welding or something of the sort than Im fine with smoking. Frankly, the only times / places where I restrict smoking is where it is in the interest of protecting my expensive shit. Ie there is no smoking in the rooms where I have expensive shit that would be damaged by smoke... If people dont like it they have two options - #1 keep their mouths shut and hold their breath or #2 Accept it. Generally though I dont have a problem, as I actually look for nicotine stained fingers or the presence of a cigarette pack when interviewing. Non smokers can go work someplace where they are welcome... I keep a pack of camel filters out in plain sight on my desk, and the person dumb enough to make a comment about that or to start lecturing me during an interview has just blown it.

Another thing. I smoke in the cockpit in flight. Deal with it and get over it. Despite prohibitions to the contrary - most pilots do. You REALLY dont want us shooting a tough isntrument approach in the throes of a nicotine fit do you?

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 27

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 12:51:13 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

I keep noticing that people keep talking about sin taxs? Are those taxes used to fight ilegal wars?

You have to laugh, people are treated like dog muck for smoking but invade a foreign country and burn maim and slaughter people and you're a hero!

Whacky whacky world.

_____________________________

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(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 28

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 5:10:52 AM

MmeGigs

Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub

To the P/pl who posted about sin taxes:

Here are some issues presented by their use as revenue streams for governments at all levels:

These things would only be pertinent if our tax policies were rational and logical. They aren't. They're a mish-mash of feel-good legislation, reaction to screaming, and social engineering. Cigarette taxes are way, WAY down the list of things one should be concerned about in our tax system. For example, if I were going to fight regressive taxes, I'd start with the sales tax - that hits the poor a lot harder than the cigarette tax.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 29

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 8:44:23 AM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Hi pinksugarsub...I guess we will disagree on this subject.

Of course you are calling taxing of so-called sins a sin tax. We tax many things for many reasons in this country. As much as we hate taxes they are necessary.

I personally am tired of paying for others addictions. I see nothing wrong with my government taxing alcohol and tobacco…heavily.

We all need to control our addictions and that means the poor as well as the rich. If I am poor and can’t keep a roof over my head or feed my children then I should not be buying cigarettes or booze.

I’m sure not rich and I do have a drink now and then but if taxing it puts a burden on my budget then I will cut down or stop. I stopped smoking because of the cost in both health and the wallet.

As far as the effect on the producers of these products perhaps they should see the writing on the wall and diversify their product lines…nothing is forever.

Your argument on tourism will not hold water I believe especially since they are already taxed to death. I don’t believe they are the target.

Criminals are criminals… they will be criminals with or without a sin tax.

As for the use of said taxes that is up the electorate… If the taxes are not used wisely we can and should vote them from office…we did here in Missouri for just that reason.

As for reliability… I would hope the tax income would decrease… That would most likely mean better overall health… The money not spent on cigs or booze for instance will spent on other goods and increase the general sales tax.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/18/2008 8:47:19 AM >

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 30

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 10:13:39 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub
A/anyone seriously believe that adopting a Lottery has enhanced education in any state?

Never heard of the HOPE scholarship program I guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 31

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 11:12:06 AM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinksugarsub
A/anyone seriously believe that adopting a Lottery has enhanced education in any state?

Never heard of the HOPE scholarship program I guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

amen.....that scholarship program rocks and has helped so many.

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 32

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 11:28:30 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

A/anyone seriously believe that adopting a Lottery has enhanced education in any state?

As far as I know it hasn't in my state. It was adopted to benefit senior citizen programs.

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(in reply to SeeksOnlyOne)

Post #: 33

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 1:51:40 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
Status: offline

The 'Lottery monies will go to education' hoax is exactly that, a hoax.
In some states, the education monies went into the general fund and were unaccounted for, in others they are talking about having to lower the GPA requirements because the lottery scholarships haven't suceeded in improving the educationalsystem in K-12 suffciently

Now, a New York Times examination of lottery documents, as well as interviews with lottery administrators and analysts, finds that lotteries accounted for less than 1 percent to 5 percent of the total revenue for K-12 education last year in the states that use this money for schools.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/07/business/07lotto.html?_r=1&ei=5088&...&oref=slogin

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 34

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 6:54:05 PM

Bethnai

Posts: 492
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline

I can't particpate in political activism, currently. So, if a restaurant or bar allows smoking then I go. If it doesn't, I refuse to drop a dime. Its that simple. It really is.

I have worked in bars for a really long time and they don't always give a damn about the health of their employees. Just a heads up. I don't work for one now but given the stats on shift work...........I'm thinking they don't give a damn about that either. That isn't even touching the tip of the iceburg on safety in oil field trash or steel mills or a half a dozen other jobs. So, we can drop the whole our employers (as an overgeneralized whole) cares. I refuse to buy any argument that is based on that gets a morality point because its work.

My employers knew I smoked then and also now. They are also aware that I have a Type A personality and will ride out anything. Its what makes me a good asset. I'm not just on it but I got it covered.

I don't have a problem paying taxes, PROVIDING, I get to see where it goes. See, the sin tax is a double edged sword. It increases the bar prices. I can go to the store and pay for a case of Corona or a bottle of Captain and go home. It will last me a long time. If I go out, then I go out knowing that I will spend double, if not triple, the amount. So, I guess that the last of the middle class bar and restaurant owners can fold in my area. They can lose their homes. Good luck with taxes.

(in reply to pinksugarsub)

Post #: 35

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 8:04:15 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Never heard of the HOPE scholarship program I guess.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

I guess you haven't been following the CRCT mess, have you? Georgia has had a lottery in place for many years and the state still ranks near the bottom of the barrel in education.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 36

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 8:13:23 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

I am a non-smoker and I have never smoked. There is a smoking ban in place here in Georgia regarding bars and restaurants. In a nutshell if these establishments allow smoking then nobody under 21 is admitted in them and I think that includes employees but I may be incorrect on that last part.

Pretty much all of the primarily restaurant type places became non-smoking. The bars and sports bars and such are still smoking establishments. I have never been an advocate of government meddling like this - I think the marketplace should decide. I have to say as a non smoker that it's really nice to go out to eat and not have to smell smoke anymore. I think both sides of the fence fared pretty well income wise.

I have no sympathy for the "rights" of smokers. I do have sympathy for the rights of businessmen and women.

(in reply to MusicalBoredom)

Post #: 37

RE: Political Action Against Anti-Smoking Efforts - 6/18/2008 8:56:41 PM

SeeksOnlyOne

Posts: 2012
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

the age is actually 18........and, other than when im drinking, i dont mind not being allowed to smoke. if i got so bad i couldnt make it through an hour meal with out a cig, id be concerned.

and the bars i go to to hear bands still allow smoking, so it doesnt bother me a bit.

well, i hate goin outside the dang waffle house at 230 am to smoke....but thats another story i reckon

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

(in reply to Evility)

Post #: 38

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