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McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 10:54:32 AM

pinksugarsub

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McCain's been running a new ad in my locale. Watching it, i wondered if he had turned into a 'dove' or even softened his position on the Iraq War.

After watching the ad and then reading what is posted on McCain's officialsite regarding the Iraq War, i felt his new ad was somewhat deceptive.

Judge for Y/yourselves:

McCain's ad 'I Hate War':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1OUxBvlLr0

McCain's offical campaign site:

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

Excerpt from McCain's official site (Issue: Iraq):

quote:

"I do not want to keep our troops in Iraq a minute longer than necessary to secure our interests there. Our goal is an Iraq that can stand on its own as a democratic ally and a responsible force for peace in its neighborhood. Our goal is an Iraq that no longer needs American troops. And I believe we can achieve that goal, perhaps sooner than many imagine. But I do not believe that anyone should make promises as a candidate for President that they cannot keep if elected. To promise a withdrawal of our forces from Iraq, regardless of the calamitous consequences to the Iraqi people, our most vital interests, and the future of the Middle East, is the height of irresponsibility. It is a failure of leadership. "

"I know the pain war causes. I understand the frustration caused by our mistakes in this war. And I regret sincerely the additional sacrifices imposed on the brave Americans who defend us. But I also know the toll a lost war takes on an army and on our country's security. By giving General Petraeus and the men and women he has the honor to command the time and support necessary to succeed in Iraq we have before us a hard road. But it is the right road. It is necessary and just. Those who disregard the unmistakable progress we have made in the last year and the terrible consequences that would ensue were we to abandon our responsibilities in Iraq have chosen another road. It may appear to be the easier course of action, but it is a much more reckless one, and it does them no credit even if it gives them an advantage in the next election." –John McCain

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/fdeb03a7-30b0-4ece-8e34-4c7ea83f11d8.htm

What are Y/your thoughts on the matter?

pinksugarsub

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 12:11:37 PM

slvemike4u

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Believe the rhetoric on the campaign site,chalk up the commercial to an attempt to garner votes IMO

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 12:16:13 PM

TieNTeas

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I think McCain has been consistent with his message/feelings toward the Iraq war and war in general.

The media and others have repeatedly distorted what he has said, however. I have a friend that instists McCain said he wants our troops fighting in Iraq for 100 years. Of course, the reality is he talked about having presence in Iraq like we have in Japan, Germany, South Korea for the past 50-60 years.

What do you think is "deceptive"?

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 12:20:47 PM

slvemike4u

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Yeah he took a media hit on that 100 year shit,never did he mean to leave the impression he was okay with a 100 years of what is currently going on.That said he does still hold to the belief of a victory to be had and I'm not sure that is possible

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 12:52:48 PM

popeye1250

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It should be titled; "I Hate War...BUT."
You *know* there's a "but" comming up in there soon!

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:08:09 PM

cyberdude611

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I think you misunderstand him. No one LIKES war. But sometimes it is necessary. If we all refused to fight, people like Hitler would rule the world. Without war, slavery would likely still exist today or exist much longer than it did. Without war, there would be no United States.

The philosopher John Stuart Mill once said:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing that is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

McCain was a POW and did experience war first hand. So his opinion on war in general carries more weight in my opinion than Obama's opinion who has never experienced war.

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:11:23 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
If we all refused to fight, people like Hitler would rule the world.

...surely if everyone refused to fight, hitler would have been standing there shouting 'fight dammit' while everyone looked at him and shook their heads sadly.
i'm reminded of the old joke, 'what if they gave a war and nobody came?'

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:15:27 PM

slvemike4u

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I reread the post looking for where anyone said he "liked"war,couldn't find it.On the other hand I stated it was my belief that he feels there is still a victory to be had in Iraq...don't believe that is a distortion of his beliefs

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:16:22 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611
If we all refused to fight, people like Hitler would rule the world.

...surely if everyone refused to fight, hitler would have been standing there shouting 'fight dammit' while everyone looked at him and shook their heads sadly.
i'm reminded of the old joke, 'what if they gave a war and nobody came?'

Yeah but you know that it doesnt work that way. Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:18:29 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Yeah but you know that it doesnt work that way. Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

...heh, my irony-meter just blew up........can anyone spell Patriot Act?

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:19:17 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

Some kind of mysterious superpower, perhaps?

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:22:04 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

Some kind of mysterious superpower, perhaps?

You don't suppose this was one of those super-weapons things like the V-2 or something

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:25:30 PM

kittinSol

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Uh huh... A mysterious ability to rally the crowds and make them fight in unison at the common enemy and burn it... nope, it wasn't Hitler's talent alone.

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:25:34 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

Some kind of mysterious superpower, perhaps?

No, he just knew how to speak, how to lie, and how to decieve. He lied so well I wonder if at times he started to believe his own lies. Remember what Lenin said, "Tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."
There was a poll several years ago taken in Germany and nearly a 1/3rd say that Hitler "was a good leader."

Notice the only thing that defeated the Nazis...was fighting them. Just ask the Russians. They lost 30 million people in that fight. Had they rolled over like the French....who knows...Hitler may have won the war.

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:27:37 PM

orfunboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Hitler had the ability to create enough fear in the populace to make them do anything he wanted.

Some kind of mysterious superpower, perhaps?

Alien influences.....

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:27:52 PM

kittinSol

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Hmmm... where was that poll about Germans thinking Hitler was a good leader? I'd like to see it. (Incidentally, you hear that kind of shit everywhere you go, in England, in France, in Switzerland, in America, and pretty much everywhere else in the world.)

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 6/16/2008 1:29:01 PM >

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:30:14 PM

philosophy

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Getting a populace to feel disproprtionate fear about anything is a good way to hold on to, and then abuse, power.......Hitler isn't the only politician of the 20th/21st century to employ that trick.

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:32:22 PM

kittinSol

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Precisely. It's not some kind of personal ability. Lies, deceit and fabrication are at the base of a lot of wars. *Ahem*

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:33:56 PM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Precisely. It's not some kind of personal ability. Lies, deceit and fabrication are at the base of a lot of wars. *Ahem*

....good job all the leaders of the Western world are above such chicanery........

(over the smoking ruins of his irony-detector, his sarcasm-detector also blows up)

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RE: McCain's New Ad: 'I Hate War' - 6/16/2008 1:36:45 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

....good job all the leaders of the Western world are above such chicanery........

Yes, it makes my heart all warm and fuzzy to think we're so well protected from such deception here.

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