RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (Full Version)

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Gwynvyd -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (6/16/2008 8:20:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yesterday it being Fathers Day i apologised for allowing my toxicity to leak all over this thread...the thread still seems to be going and I am not so worried about leaking..there have been a lot of noble and well meaning post's here extolling the healing power of forgiveness...in most cases I would agree,but it has been my sad experience that there are betrayals that not only don't deserve nor is it healthy to forgive.This is of course my opinion and is not meant to say anyone else's belief system is wrong.it has been said forgiveness and forgetting are two different things....well if You forgive but don't forget where is this grand healing payoff in that...remembering and holding on to is not allways a choice sometimes it is the only option left open to a victim and his best path to healing ,by the simple act of being better than his abuser and breaking the cycle of abuse...which in the long run was all I cared about not forgiving the betrayer...just living up to my responsibility to my own...which I have done and my son will never have to weigh the relative merits of betrayal suffered at the hands of his father....that is all that matters ,my past is buried and not an issue and his future is clear and not clouded by my past


I think that it is healing to forgive... the toxic feelings and hurt that is carried around, and the continual feelings of being the victim, or having been a victim remain ( in my opinion ) when I had not forgiven. Mind you I will never forget what has happened. If I were to do that.. just as they say, one who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it. I would never want those things to happen to anyone.. little alone *again* mind you I am an adult now.. and able to fend for myself.. and fend off most people who would wish to do me harm. It is why when I figure out that I have a negitive influance in my life, I rid myself of that person. I simply do not need that.

Now not forgetting does not mean dwelling apon, or drugeing up every oppertunity either. My ex had that issue. She had "moved on" ~ which included holding hostage anyone who would stand still long enough to hear the horrors of her childhood, her family and intimate details of shit no body ever would want to know about.

At some point no matter how horrific.. you have to let it go, and move on. I think forgiving is one of the first if not The first step in that process of stopping the "being the victim" cycle.

Did I wish my brother and sister ill for what they did to me? You betchya.. for years I did. Hell I willed it. I got my wish... and my life suffered as well. When I chose to let it go, my life improved... and I could see out of the deep hole I was in to help others.


Yes there are monsters... I lived with 2 of them. I was raped on a nightly basis by one, had most of my bones broken, and was continualy posioned and told awful things... toss in my alchie father in there that left us somewheres... but that is at the bottom of the pile. Yes monsters most certainly exist. However healing, grace, fogiveness, and taking back your own life for yourself is always within your grasp.


I hope you find peace with your past, and forgiveness when it is time for it.

Gwyn




Gwynvyd -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (6/16/2008 8:26:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

It's definitely going to be a journey, Gwyn; but, I bet you'll be someplace wonderful (physically and emotionally) once all is said and done.


Goodness I hope so. *hugs* thanks sweetie

Right now I live in the State of confusion. *smiles*

So much to think on. And about. I might be visiting my Minister about it soon... yeah it is that kinda *ugh*

At least I was able to admit I was pissed at myself today.. and get that out of the way.. I had not realized how hurt and pissed off I was with myself. *chuckles* Pretty bad that I hide my hurt feelings even from myself. I gotta quit doing that.

Gwyn




cpK69 -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (6/16/2008 9:32:31 PM)

There is something about this sentiment that does not feel accurate to me.
 
My first instinct is to agree that forgiving is something favorable to allow ones self, but when I think on it more, I have to ask, what is it I am forgiving?
 
I am human. It’s a learning process. Sometimes I mess up; sometimes I have had help at it. I do my best to learn from my experiences, and change what I can to do better. Sometimes this has taken many tries.
 
Should I expect myself to be more then what I am?
 
It seems to me, with truth, there is no need to forgive.




slvemike4u -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (6/16/2008 9:49:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yesterday it being Fathers Day i apologised for allowing my toxicity to leak all over this thread...the thread still seems to be going and I am not so worried about leaking..there have been a lot of noble and well meaning post's here extolling the healing power of forgiveness...in most cases I would agree,but it has been my sad experience that there are betrayals that not only don't deserve nor is it healthy to forgive.This is of course my opinion and is not meant to say anyone else's belief system is wrong.it has been said forgiveness and forgetting are two different things....well if You forgive but don't forget where is this grand healing payoff in that...remembering and holding on to is not allways a choice sometimes it is the only option left open to a victim and his best path to healing ,by the simple act of being better than his abuser and breaking the cycle of abuse...which in the long run was all I cared about not forgiving the betrayer...just living up to my responsibility to my own...which I have done and my son will never have to weigh the relative merits of betrayal suffered at the hands of his father....that is all that matters ,my past is buried and not an issue and his future is clear and not clouded by my past


I think that it is healing to forgive... the toxic feelings and hurt that is carried around, and the continual feelings of being the victim, or having been a victim remain ( in my opinion ) when I had not forgiven. Mind you I will never forget what has happened. If I were to do that.. just as they say, one who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it. I would never want those things to happen to anyone.. little alone *again* mind you I am an adult now.. and able to fend for myself.. and fend off most people who would wish to do me harm. It is why when I figure out that I have a negitive influance in my life, I rid myself of that person. I simply do not need that.

Now not forgetting does not mean dwelling apon, or drugeing up every oppertunity either. My ex had that issue. She had "moved on" ~ which included holding hostage anyone who would stand still long enough to hear the horrors of her childhood, her family and intimate details of shit no body ever would want to know about.

At some point no matter how horrific.. you have to let it go, and move on. I think forgiving is one of the first if not The first step in that process of stopping the "being the victim" cycle.

Did I wish my brother and sister ill for what they did to me? You betchya.. for years I did. Hell I willed it. I got my wish... and my life suffered as well. When I chose to let it go, my life improved... and I could see out of the deep hole I was in to help others.


Yes there are monsters... I lived with 2 of them. I was raped on a nightly basis by one, had most of my bones broken, and was continualy posioned and told awful things... toss in my alchie father in there that left us somewheres... but that is at the bottom of the pile. Yes monsters most certainly exist. However healing, grace, fogiveness, and taking back your own life for yourself is always within your grasp.


I hope you find peace with your past, and forgiveness when it is time for it.

Gwyn
As I said in my post these were my feelings on the subject and not meant to invalidate anyone else's.Has for taking back my life I feel I did that when I raised my son and did it in a decent loving way.He is 19 y/o and my best friend, never touched by the toxcicity that poisoned my childhood...I stopped being a victim when I started being a Father




Gwynvyd -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (8/2/2008 2:37:58 PM)

I am returning to this thread to thank you all for your input, and help on my forgiveness sermon. The services are tomorrow, and many of your words are going to be echoed in my service.

Gwyn




Gwynvyd -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (8/3/2008 4:51:31 PM)

Well I did my sermon today.... and it went over very well. I was sweating like nuts.. and nervous.. but no body noticed that.

Here is the pod cast for those of you who wish to hear it. A lot of your words are repeated in it.

http://www.uustpete.org/Sermons/pc_08_03_08.mp3

I hope you enjoy it.

Gwyn




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Is forgiveness a gift? (8/4/2008 1:42:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

To me, it depends on the degree and seriousness of the betrayal and/or damage done. Imo and experience, some things are unforgivable. That is not to say that nursing resentments is in any way healthy. It's not and is self-destructive.

Sometimes, I've found, that revenge is appropriate and I agree with the Klingons that revenge is a dish best served cold.

Some things ARE unforgiveable. And for me to sit around with my Klingon friends drinking Blood Wine and biding my time, well, the transgression has to be severe. It was. 




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