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Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 5:51:01 AM   
pinksugarsub


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quote:

BOSTON — Four years after Massachusetts became the first state to allow gay couples to marry, there have been blissful unions, painful divorces and everything in between. 
 
Same-Sex Marriages in Massachusetts

Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times

Heather and Adrienne Walker with their four children in Natick, Mass., say others have more respect for the seriousness of their relationship since they married.

Some same-sex couples say being married has made a big difference, and some say it has made no difference at all. There are devoted couples who have decided marriage is not for them, couples whose lawyers or accountants advised them against marrying, and couples in which one partner wants to marry but the other does not.

But as same-sex marriage begins in California, Massachusetts’s experience may offer hints of what is to come. For example, after an initial euphoric rush to the altar, the number of gay weddings here fell sharply and has declined each year since. Of the more than 10,500 same-sex couples married here since May 17, 2004, 6,121 wed in the first six months. There were 2,060 weddings in 2005; 1,442 in 2006; and 867 in the first eight months of 2007, the most recent data show.

Gay men and lesbians say the early wave of weddings reflected “pent-up demand” from longstanding couples. The subsequent numbers indicate that “marriage isn’t for everybody,” said Mary L. Bonauto, a lawyer who argued the case that led to same-sex marriage being legalized here. And, Ms. Bonauto said, “there’s only so many gay people in Massachusetts.”

The Census Bureau recorded 23,655 same-sex households in Massachusetts in 2006.

Nearly two-thirds of the weddings have been lesbian marriages, including one between two women named Melissa McCarthy. And while nearly half of straight people marrying are under 30, more same-sex married couples of both sexes are older — nearly a third are in their 40s.

Lawyers say same-sex couples are more likely to draw up prenuptial agreements than straight couples are.

For some, the marriage learning curve is steep.

“It’s been a mixed bag,” said Jacob Venter, a 44-year-old child psychiatrist who married Billy Boney, a 36-year-old hairdresser, a month after it became legal to do so. They have disagreements over money, the in-laws and whether to adopt children or have their own.

“Nothing turns out the way you imagine,” Mr. Venter said. “There are no role models for gay marriage.”

Unlike California, Massachusetts has a residency requirement for marriage. Some couples have moved here to marry, including Lisa Forest and Ann Marie Willer, who came from Texas.

“Without having that legal recognition, we felt very vulnerable,” Ms. Forest said. “We wanted the psychological security of knowing that we’re protected if one of us were to become sick, that we would be able to transfer our assets, at least on the state level, without incurring taxes, that we’ll be able to stay together if we’re old and not able to care for ourselves.”

For many, the biggest advantages are less quantifiable.

“I feel totally different inside my skin,” said Linda Bailey-Davies, 62, who married her longtime partner, Gloria Bailey-Davies, 67. With marriage, she said, “I felt legitimate in the world.”

Heather and Adrienne Walker believe people better understand the seriousness of their relationship, recognition that is especially valuable to them as mothers of four children in suburban Natick.

“Before marriage was legal, if I called Adrienne my wife, people would say ‘Your what?’ ” Heather Walker said.

“But if you say partner, they’re thinking business partner. The knowledge that we are legally married, that they can’t play a semantics game, is very freeing. There’s none of that, ‘but we really need to talk to the actual parents.’ ”

Still, some couples find few significant advantages. Many employers offered health insurance to domestic partners. State taxes can be higher for some couples, and the lack of federal recognition of gay marriage makes lucrative benefits — Social Security, federal tax breaks — off limits.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/us/15marriage.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
 
Well, now maybe the homophobes will relax a bit.
 
pinksugarsub

< Message edited by pinksugarsub -- 6/15/2008 5:54:16 AM >


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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 7:06:05 AM   
Hippiekinkster


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Damn, I thought PaHunkBoy started a lot of threads. You've left him in the dust. Why not start one thread titled "Pinky's questions about everything" and combine them all?

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 7:50:25 AM   
Termyn8or


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I was never for Gay marriage, but I was never against it. To explain, I just don't see any sense in it, but live and let live. It doesn't bother me, it is their right to do whatever they want. I don't see much reason for heterosexual marriage either these days. Divorce is so common that getting married is bound to just make a couple of lawyers some money. That's about it. All it does is complicate life.

My boss and his Woman have both been through a few divorces. When his last one was final she said "So we can talk marriage ?". He replied "Between the two of us we've made ten lawyers rich, wanna shoot for twelve ?". At that point she agreed. She had been through the mill before as well.

So they are happily unmarried. I don't see the point in getting married these days. It's a cool novelty but that is all. I know people who are more married than people who are legally married. In fact most legally married Men I know are cheaters. Is the marriage like a facade ? Is that all it is to them ? But then the ones who didn't actually get married generally don't cheat. Been together over twenty years and shit. The one guy has an old flame stop over from time to time, but his olady knows he's not going to do her. It is not a problem.

This coming from someone who comes from a family that has not ever failed to have a fiftieth wedding anniversery in any generation since Ellis Island. Things were different for them and really, I think the last one was the last. (my Uncle and Aunt)

Times have changed, and if I may get flippant here for a moment, it's time the Gays paid their fair share. They have lived without lawyer bills and alimony for so long now that they are probably filthy rich. Some are just good at hiding it. Let's let the lawyers into their pockets and see how they feel about it. Welcome to the rest of the world.

That was meant humorously but does speak something. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

T

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 7:51:43 AM   
Gwynvyd


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When my partner and I were together ( mind you she helped raise my um for 7 of his 11 years) we did get a lot of that semantics crap.. ( well no she Cant be your wife... and who is the "real" parent) it would honestly piss us off. We were just as committed as any straight married couple. We had a house, a car payment, paid taxes, helped Charity orgs, were in the PTA, raised a child, had a mini van at one point *blah* we did all the things a straight married couple did. Paid for all the things ( and more) that a stiaght married couple pays. I had health insurance on them both. When the um got really sick and we ended up at the ER one Sat eve instead of the movies.. we got the whole "Who is the *real* parent.. the other one has to leave" crap. Our um cried and got hysterical that they were gonna take his ma-ma away. The nurse got a very strong talking to by me. If my partner had been a guy there would have been no questioning.. they would have *assumed* that they were the um's father. That really pissed me off. ( I know this because I have had a friend drive me to the ER when my um almost broke his leg.. and he was allowed all over with me with out a question.. and they assumed he was the father. )

Hopefuly people will evolve and learn that who you chose to love is not so import as that you chose to love at all.

Gwyn

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 7:58:12 AM   
Gwynvyd


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well to some it is more then having a glitzy catered event... though that *is* nice. I have friends in the biz.. and get discounts.

http://www.marriageequality.org/meusa/facts.shtml



The Practical
Marriage offers 1,138 Federal benefits and responsibilities, not including hundreds more offered by every state.
    In times of crisis, spouses have hospital visitation rights and can make medical decisions in event of illness or disability of their spouse.

    Employers offer spouses sick leave, bereavement leave, access to health insurance and pension

    The law provides certain automatic rights to a person's spouse regardless of whether or not a will exists.

    Married couples in elderly care facilities are generally not separated unless one spouse's health dictates hospitalization or special care.

    The dissolution of a marriage requires a determination of property distribution, award of child custody and support and spousal support. Absent divorce, there is no uniform system for sorting out the ending of a relationship.

The Finances
Financial issues are complex and challenging, no matter the couple. And when home ownership, kids and other assets are a part of the equation, planning for the present and especially the future is even more critical for greater security.
  • Married couples are permitted to give an unlimited amount of gifts to each other without being taxed.

    The law presumes that a married couple with both names on the title to their home owns the property as "tenants by the entirety."

    A married couple, by statute, has creditor protection of their marital home.

    Many married people are entitled to financial benefits relating to their spouses, such as disability, pension and social security benefits.

    With marriage, a couple has the right to be treated as an economic unit and to file joint tax returns (and pay the marriage penalty), and obtain joint health, home and auto insurance policies.

    When a spouse dies, there is no need to prove ownership of every item in the household for taxable purposes.

Protecting Children
  • A child who grows up with married parents benefits from the fact that his or her parents' relationship is recognized by law and receives legal protections.

    Spouses are generally entitled to joint child custody and visitation upon divorce (and bear an obligation to pay child support).

    The mark of a strong family and healthy children is having parents who are nurturing, caring, and loving. Parents should be judged on their ability to parent, not by their age, race, religion, gender, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity.

    A recent study published in the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics, entitled The Effects of Marriage, Civil Union, and Domestic Partnership Laws on the Health and Well-being of Children found that:

    * Same-gender couples live in 99.3% of all US counties.

    * Same-gender couples are raising children in at least 96% of all US counties.

    * Nearly one quarter of all same-gender couples are raising children.

    * Nationwide, 34.3% of lesbian couples are raising children, and 22.3% of gay male couples are raising children (compared with 45.6% of married heterosexual and 43.1% of unmarried heterosexual couples raising children).

    * Vermont has the largest aggregation of same gender-couples (~1% of all households) followed by California, Washington, Massachusetts, and Oregon.

    According to a new study published in the Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics:

    Census 2000 and related demographic research make it clear that parenting by same-gender couples is an established and growing part of the diverse structure of families in the United States. Public policies that aim to promote family stability and security typically are established without consideration for same-gender parents and their children, and they place these families at a disadvantage, as they do heterosexual unmarried parents, single parents, and extended-family caregivers.

    Public policy designed to promote the family as the basic building block of society has at its core the protection of children's health and well-being. Children's well being relies in large part on a complex blend of their own legal rights and the rights derived, under law, from their parents. Children of same-gender parents often experience economic, legal, and familial insecurity as a result of the absence of legal recognition of their bonds to their nonbiological parents. Current public-policy trends, with notable exceptions, favor limiting or prohibiting the availability of civil marriage and limiting rights and protections to same-gender couples.

    To read more about this study go to: http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/118/1/349

The Healthy Advantage
Studies show that people who are married tend to live longer and lead healthier lives.
  • For adults, a stable, happy marriage is the best protector against illness and premature death. Decades of research have clearly established these links. (Burman & Margolin, 1992; Dawson, 1991; Verbrugge, 1979).

    Studies on marriages have found that married people live longer, have higher incomes and wealth, engage less in risky behaviors, eat more healthily, and have fewer psychological problems than unmarried people. (Waite, Linda J. "Why Marriage Matters." Strengthening Marriage Roundtable. Washington, DC, June 1997)

    Research shows that unmarried couples have lower levels of happiness and well-being than married couples. (Popenoe, David and Dafoe Whitehead, Barbara, USA Today, July, 2000)

    A recent study shows that denying same-sex couples the right to marry has a negative impact on their mental health.

    I Do, But I can't: The impact of marriage denial on the mental health of sexual citizenship of Lesbians and Gay Men in the United States (Herdt, G. & Kertzner, R. 2006).

    http://www.nsrc.sfsu.edu

I hope this helps explain why it is important to those not in the know.

I have posted links like these severial times... hopefuly the word gets out that it is about more then the cake, and being married in name.

Gwyn

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 9:56:54 AM   
Maya2001


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The reasons sited by Gywn was the reasons the Canadian government pushed to allow gay marriages inorder to allow gay individual the same rights and benefits as hetrosexual couples.... my dad and stepmom lived together for 20 years when they went to do their will ..it was their lawyer that recommended marriage to ensure she is entitled to all benefits and to ensure the will is not contested  and overturned in court since she is not legally married to him by children or other family members of the spouses now they have been married over 25 years...that type of BS happens often with couples that never tie the knot and one passes away... I have seen evidence of it happening even in very long standing relationships especially to the woman who has put most of her lifetime and her money into the relationship only to have assets usurped  by his familly and her left with next to nothing, kick out and force into poverty...she did not just loose her partner ..she lost everything that him her build together... the other reason for marrying was my dad wanted to ensure she was provided for if he died first but wanted to ensure her daughters would not try to take all that was left to her  and ensure it would be split appropriately to both families upon her death.  With gay couples often the family member can be less accepting of the relationship and the risk of following the wishes of a deceased member is more likely to be contested.. so have legal recognition of the union offers protection  to the partner.

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 10:08:34 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


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marry me

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 10:34:39 PM   
Termyn8or


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faery, I don't think I can.

T

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/15/2008 11:53:08 PM   
popeye1250


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As comedian Roseann Barr once said;
"Gay Marriage!?
"My God, haven't those people suffered enough?"

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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/16/2008 2:15:39 AM   
Asherdelampyr


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"Anyone that has ever been married knows its always the same sex"
Robin Williams - Man of the year

honestly though, I still cant understand why people care enough to stop this, its not like its gonna make it so gay guys fuck your husband on your honeymoon (unless hes in the closet, then, who knows? :P)


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RE: Gay Experiences With Marriage - 6/17/2008 5:05:08 AM   
pahunkboy


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I am happy if anyone can be happy.   But from where I stand the gay crowd is so promiscuous that it isnt about committment.

Still, for the many years that I wanted a partner, I am glad I ended up where I am.    Only my name is on the house the vehicles, etc.  So I am the most important person in this house.  

Sorry to be jaded - but I dont beleive in happiness ever after/
I am so glad my 7 yrs thing ended before everything went heywire. No way could i navigate that and put up with a teen aged acting "husband".


Oh- on the many posts, I do enjoy a lively board.  

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