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jlf1961 -> RE: Has War Itself Evolved? (6/12/2008 2:44:41 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Ok see this is where there is a dichotomy between the public perception of warfare and the realities of it. I have said time and time again "the purpose of war is to kill people and break shit". Its not about democracy, or winning hearts and minds, or making things better for Joe Iraqi.
Of course typhus, cholera etc is rampant. Thats why we bomb the waste water treatment plants and water supplies etc! We WANT disease outbreaks because while we cant use biological weapons by treaty, with some proper targeting we can get the same effect thanks to mother nature.
One major flaw with your arguement here, diseases like cholera and typhus mutate during thier life cycle. Why do you think that people who survived out breaks of cholera ended up dieing during a subsequint outbreak, which means, our troops are equally exposed and thus share the same risk.
Oh, and lets not forget about plague, you remember the black death from the middle ages, well it is STILL around. It mutates, strikes, spreads, kills a bunch of people then disappears. Recently about five mutations have been discovered that are anti-biotic resistant, along with strains of malaria that are resistant to treatment AND preventive measures.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomAviator
There is NO such thing as a "useless project" that benefits the REMFs. Speaking as an officer, I can say with great certainty that SeaBee talent is MUCH better applied to adding 9 holes to the base golf course than to rebuilding the wastewater treatment plant. Hmmm, new draft beer system at the O Club or running water at the childrens hospital? NO CONTEST! The Iraqis have civilian plumbers....
Actually, under the Hague Convention, the Geneva accords, and International Law, all of which the US has signed or agreed to, basically dictates that everything we blew up in reference to the infrastructure of Iraq, we have to rebuild. The precedent was set by the post WW2 Marshal plan concerning Europe in general and Germany specifically.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomAviator
The higher the body count the happier the higher ups were. The more targets I destroyed, the more cute little things got painted on the side of my aircraft. The better the bomb damage assements were the better my target prosecution rate was and the more colorful little ribbons I got to wear on my uniform. The more colorful ribbons I got, the more pussy I got at the bars stateside and the better my jacket looked when it went to the promotion board
By the way, may I point out the simple fact that another number that the powers that be look at is collateral damage, which if you remember is defined as " [the] unintentional damage or incidental damage affecting facilities, equipment, or personnel, occurring as a result of military actions directed against targeted enemy forces or facilities. Such damage can occur to friendly, neutral, and even enemy forces".
Which is EXACTLY why Hospitals, places of worship, civilian shelters, schools, etc is not reqarded as air targets. Should these areas need to be nuetralized, it is the ground pounders job to do it.
It is for that very reason that pilots have been relieved of duty for hitting something that was clearly marked 'offlimits.' It happened in Vietnam, during the Bosnia/Serbia peace keeping deployments, and in the first gulf war.
One more thing, under the INTERNATIONAL rules of engagement, targeting any structure that would cause undo hardship on the civilian or non-combatent population is regarded as off limits and SHOULD such structures or facilities be damaged or destroyed, all effort must be made to restore function in a timely manner.
Our lack of effort in this area is the primary cause of dissatisfaction among our Arab allies (you know, the guys that have the majority of the oil and can really screw us over.)
quote:
ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Anyway, we arent there to win hearts and minds... Despite all the nonsense about WMD etc - We are there to PISS OFF MUSLIM TERRORISTS. This way, every muslim with an inclanation to Jihad has a place to go where he can go help "liberate iraq" and we can fight the battle THERE instead of the skies of NY, DC and Pennsylvania.
Actually, by committing troops for the various invalid reasons you have pointed out, has diminished our ability to PREVENT such attacks as occured on 9/11/2001, or effectively react to such an attack should it occur. The disaster after Katrina proved that point all to clearly.
Let me remind you that Andrew which struck Florida was the same strength as Katrina, and yet within hours help and relief was already beginning to arrive. This was not true in the case of Katrina, and in point of fact, the lack of trained personnel has been the primary cause for the lack of progress in the Katrina impact area.
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ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Why do you think shit gets out like Abu G'Raib, and Koran Shooting, and the Hadji Girl song, etc.... Do you really think we are that stupid? We are TRYING to piss them off to lure them to a place where we can engage them with the collateral damage being Iraqis instead of Americans. We now also for all intensive purposes have the entire fucking country of Iraq as a base from which we can stage attacks on anyone in the region. All that shit on Al Jazeera - its true and its being thought up at the higher paygrades and laughed at when the extremists behave exactly as predicted.
Let me remind you that the personnel responsible for each of the acts you mentioned were tried and convicted under the UCMJ and are either serving time or dishonorably discharged. Other incidents have resulted in murder charges being filed against personnel, again under the UCMJ, and the International Community still has the right to prosecute those individuals for war crimes.
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ORIGINAL: DomAviator
We know that as a rule muslim extremists are hotheads, and when provoked they will flock to Iraq to join in the "glorious battles against the infidels". Then, once there, we give them an assful of 30 mike mike and show them how WP feels on exposed skin and the innocents killed in the battle arent flight attendants, stockbrokers, and secretaries like they were in 2001. Works for me.
Actually, you are making a generalized statement on the evidence presented by a minority of the group.
At present if all the followers of Islam were fanatic hotheads as you put forth, I am afraid that we would be quickly outnumbered in Iraq, and when the fight got to the states, we would be, in a word, screwed.
You see, there are an estimated 1 billion to 1.8 billion followers of Islam. Only an estimated minority of less than 1 percent follow a fanatic belief system, out of that number, most are fighting amonst themselves based on various sect beliefs, leaving a relatively small number of 'hotheads' fighting against the western world.
Nobody in their right mind would want to anger 1.8 billion people and get them involved in anything resembling a holy war.
To make an anology of the result of such an act:
It would be the same as it was for Custer and the 7th, except, that instead of having to only deal with a camp full of Cheyenne and Lakota, you would have the entire Kiowa, Apache, Commanche, Arapaho, and every other plains and warring tribe of the southwest attacking.
The result would be the same, except that the ENTIRE column would have been wiped out, not just those under Custer's direct command.
The United States was lucky in one respect, that all the Nations of Native Americans west of the Mississippi did not form an alliance to put a stop to our westward expansion.
And before ANYONE points out that a modern army can easily brush aside a force with primitive weapons, I would suggest you look up the combat history of the British 24th foot, the Welsh Borderers.
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