Male vs. female subs

Male vs. female subs (Full Version)

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pinnipedster -> Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 7:52:09 PM)
I haven't had a great deal of r/l "scene" experience. But I used to hang out a lot in BDSM-themed online venues of various sorts. One thing I absolutely found is that I identify far more reasily with female subs than male subs. They seem generally to be more the way I see myself as wanting to be. I don't really want to sub to a male Dom (though, being a crossdresser, it's something I can imagine trying -- I'm just not sure it could be the basis of a real relationship), but I would like the kind of relationship with a dominant that I have seen female subs have with male doms. Male subs, particulary ones that seem to really get Dommes interested, are kind of a mystery to me; it's not that they aren't great guys, but they aren't like me. Now, I've said this at various times to various people in or familiar with the scene, and they find it hard to understand; they don't think that the relationships are that different. And I find it difficult to explain what I mean, because it's so obvious to me that it's hard to put into words. Does anyone here get it? Do I make any sense? Or is it just my own warped perceptions, or limited experience? Are M/f and F/m relationships fundamentally different, or are they all so individualized that the differences are not particularly related to gender? Discuss. :)

chamberqueen -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 8:18:57 PM)
I believe there is a big difference between male and female subs; I've also been told that I am 100% wrong. I think that women often feel more free to look for a Daddy Dom. Some male subs really need a Mommy or Teacher style Domme - which just happens to be my natural role. I am not a sadist standing in high heels, latex, and wielding a bullwhip. You may feel closer to the emotions of a female sub because you are looking to be cared for, guided, and disciplined rather than being more masochistic. What do YOU think?

fluffyswitch -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 8:53:11 PM)
i think that it falls somewhere in the middle: there are bound to be some differences just because of gender socialization, even if it's through the act of deliberately rejecting your gender socialization and gender roles. even most of judith butler and other gender theorists reject gender by essentially acting with it. but at the same time yes each relationship is individual, the same way that due to our dynamic i've been accused of not 'knowing' my master or He not 'knowing' me, or any of the other things that may draw criticism. it's hard to generalize these things even though plenty of people make a living attempting to do just that.

cluelessslave -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 8:59:35 PM)
I have no idea but my guess is that it has to do with being attractive. Women mostly just can get whatever they want, if they want. Men can get what they want if they are what women want, or want what women want to give. So just by gender you have a huge difference in how submissives are. For the most part, women submissives are allowing themselves to be dominated, but could do whatever they wanted. Men who try for being submissive are offering nothing. So it is a different dynamic. Men aren't allowing themselves to be dominated, they are begging for someone to take an interest. When you see a woman dominant all hot and bothered by a submissive man it's because he turns her on. Then with men who aren't attractive, a woman would dominate him out of some motivation other than desire. Like I said, I have no idea.

pinnipedster -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 9:05:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen You may feel closer to the emotions of a female sub because you are looking to be cared for, guided, and disciplined rather than being more masochistic. What do YOU think? Hmmm...this is half right, in that the cared for/guided/disciplined part makes sense. Most dommes seem to prefer guys who are independent and confident and don't need guidance, but submit from choice. On the other hand, I'm still masochistic. :) But that's true of many female subs as well.

SlaveSimone -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/8/2008 9:44:26 PM)
I think i understand what you're getting at, and you're right, it's really hard to explain. To me, it seems like the relationship between a Domme and a male sub is more like worship then subservience. A lot of dommes seem to want to be pampered, where as thats really not a word you would see a male dom use, and its not a word i would use when describing my service to Master. Perhaps thats the difference, as subtle as it may seem. This is just my perception from the little exposure to dommes and male subs that I've had, and it may be way off the mark, I really don't know. Hm. It's confusing, eh?

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 4:52:37 AM)
This is an interesting topic of sorts. It all depends upon the type of submissive, relationship type and roles and functions. For instance, I have an interest in female submissive for over all multi-purpose. Including sexual and BDSM play use. Now, there are aspect of service submissives I enjoy as well. This is without any sex or kink involved. Call them personal assistents for lack of anything else. They can be either male or female. In terms of their own sex life and kinks they are free to do whatever they please in that department provide it does not screw with their ability to serve me. Regardless, there still has to be some form of connection involved. I have to express that D/s dynamics will vary from relationship to relationship, regardless. It is a sort of mystery, however, not really. It's the unique melding of two people to form the relationship itself. Now, here's where it gets a little interesting for me in regards to service submissives. For instance I would use a female service submissive to give me a back massage, perhaps even do a few other things that involved physically touching or interacting with me without sex involved. However, I would not use a male submissive for these same services. In many regards, these involve a form of personal pampering. I have to agree with what was posted regarding male submissives worshipping their Dommes. In many regards, this is similar in natural to sexual objectification. I express similar. Whenever somebody is worshipped they are viewed as being greater then human. Thus are removed from being treated a human. Objectification and Worship tend to Dehumanize people. My point is this, being a footstool or being a Goddess, simple means you are not treated as being human. You become something either Greater or lesser in nature. Idolization is in fact a twisted form of objectification. But that would be an depth topic for great discussion and even debate. In all honestly, I don't know what you mean about being different compared to most other male submissives. Everybody is rather different. Enter into the picture something called preception. Mind you, that most people on their profile here are presenting themselves in a somewhat limited and narrow focused manner on their profiles. Many present themselves in some form of easy to understand stereotype. When the truth of the matter is, that they are just as human and diverse as any other human being on earth. I am suggesting that perhaps your preception of other male submissives is somewhat skewed by the stereotyping that goes on in the lifestyle itself. This is something that even us DOM types have to contend with on a daily basis. There is a degree of posturing done to conform to the basic labels. The best way for anybody to know what anybody is about is to engage in honest conversation. Some people close the doors to communication right away, others are willing to explore things at length. The fact is such, that this is an evil that has evolved for time management reasons. Just keep true to youself, keep looking and be patient. There are some really wonderful Dommes out there are don't want to dress you up in women's clothes and make you a sissy boy, or other questionable things. There is a Domme somewhere out there for you. I would recommend you use other BDSM dating sites, and become active in your local BDSM community. Attend workshops and etc.. Do whatever it takes. Expand your search and keep true to yourself.

DominantJenny -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 5:31:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster snip Most dommes seem to prefer guys who are independent and confident and don't need guidance, but submit from choice. As a bisexual female dominant, I can tell you that I feel this way about both male and female submissives. Weakness is not vulnerability. I like vulnerability. Weakness is a burden. I'm also not into the level of worship that many male subs tend to put out there...as Owner4SexSlave said, it starts to feel just like objectification after a while to me, and that's not something I like. Adore me for me, flawed and human, thank you. The other thing I see often in male submissives that I don't like is the whole extreme (by my own estimation, of course) humiliation thing, particularly the focus on emasculation. Just not my thing. I like humiliation, just in a different style and to a different degree.

Aiden -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 5:42:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen You may feel closer to the emotions of a female sub because you are looking to be cared for, guided, and disciplined rather than being more masochistic. What do YOU think? I think you've hit the nail on the head there. I don't identify with the stereotyes of submissives of either gender really, but if I had to pick one it'd involve submitting to a caring female authority figure, so I guess its not too far off the mark to call that a gender reversed version of DaddyDom.

cagedmonster -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 5:48:51 AM)
Really don't think you're on your own with how you feel and how you identify. And as others have said, we're all individual and have our own take on what our interest in bdsm should look or feel like. Equally, I think that if you have spent a fair time online as opposed to actual real life experience then you might suffer from only seeing the type of male subs that are perhaps more talk than action. I'm no expert, and certaily can't advise, but to conclude, I don't think you're on your own and I hope your journey continues in a satisfactory direction.

cantilena -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 7:30:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster quote: ORIGINAL: chamberqueen You may feel closer to the emotions of a female sub because you are looking to be cared for, guided, and disciplined rather than being more masochistic. What do YOU think? Hmmm...this is half right, in that the cared for/guided/disciplined part makes sense. Most dommes seem to prefer guys who are independent and confident and don't need guidance, but submit from choice. On the other hand, I'm still masochistic. :) But that's true of many female subs as well. Hey, I'm a girl and... I like male doms who prefer women who are independent and confident and don't need guidance, but submit from choice.... What I'm trying to say is that I suspect there are a lot of guys out there with similar needs as your own. Maybe the division you're talking about is more along the lines of submission style rather than gender itself? There may be a correlation between gender and submission style, but I sort of doubt it's definitive. If that makes sense.

TwoNYCDommes -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 7:45:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave In all honestly, I don't know what you mean about being different compared to most other male submissives. Everybody is rather different. ... I am suggesting that perhaps your preception of other male submissives is somewhat skewed by the stereotyping that goes on in the lifestyle itself. We hear "I'm not like other subs..." a lot from sub men. The statement itself makes us roll our eyes, for the reasons you discussed. However, whatever they say after it typically provides useful insight into who they are. The OP stopped short of that.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 7:52:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinnipedster I haven't had a great deal of r/l "scene" experience. But I used to hang out a lot in BDSM-themed online venues of various sorts. I think the reason you might have a skewed idea is that you are basing your coments on what you have seen on online venues. Incase you havent realized it by now, people ar a parody of themselvs online, they go out of their way to be the stereotypes they believe will get someone's attention. Then, once they have that attention, in the more private venues, they are far more normal and evenkeeled most of the time. I have had both male and female subs. I dont see much of a difference in our relationships. I have 2 ow, and their relationships with me couldnt be more different. Both my boys are being guided, Angel is my baby and I am Mommy. Fox is a masochist but it is far from the extent of the relationship. I think the RELATIONSHIPS are essentally the same, just the means they use to get the attention you are seeing is the vital difference. Where those go later are not as far from where they go for a female than for a male, in my experience. DV

RedMagic1 -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 8:29:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire I think the reason you might have a skewed idea is that you are basing your coments on what you have seen on online venues. Incase you havent realized it by now, people ar a parody of themselvs online, they go out of their way to be the stereotypes they believe will get someone's attention. Then, once they have that attention, in the more private venues, they are far more normal and evenkeeled most of the time. That should be required reading before entry into any chatroom. I hard limit online chatrooms, because people burlesque tend to themselves in that medium, and I don't enjoy watching it. This stuff is much much closer to vanilla than people would learn from just online experience. Human beings are the same in fundamental ways, even if they identify as lifestyle dommes. Think gay people. You probably know gay men who are masculine, and others who are feminine. Just because someone is gay, you still know almost nothing about their personality. Focus on personality and clicking with them in vanilla ways. Sex and kink are not the priority when you are first saying hi.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 9:28:02 AM)
After rereading your OP and what a few other people have added here. There are some additional thoughts. I'm not certain about what aspects of Male Dom/Female submissive dynamics you find you desire. If anything you have a specific focus upon gender here. If for instance you find that you are more suited to a Nurturing with an element of hard assedness. This could simple enough to define. To be honest with you, I myself am a bit puzzled by this, because a lof a Men under the Dom label are outright pure assholes. (Gasp, did I just say that out loud in a public forum or what?). If you don't believe me start getting aquianted with many of your female submissive peers. I hate sounding biased towards my own Male peers, but there is a degree of truth (i believe) in what I just shared with you. With this said, I have to make additional comments coming from a gender based thing. I have found that most women in general will assert themselves if they see somebody they care about engaging is some form of self defeating behavior. Regardless of their Orientation. Be it sub,slave, switch or Domme. The whole basis for this, is because they simply care. I myself will admit, I'm a bit perflexed by some attitudes some men, applied to sub and Dom alike. Where they are a bit self centered on the emotional level. Be it the Dom that only wants to use a submissive for fuckmeat, or the male sub that just wants to be beat and kicked in the balls. Where as, in both cases they refuse to become emotionally involved or otherwise involved on any other level. Now, I can not proclaim and pass judgement upon anybody for their own desires. However, many Dommes at least desire something level of involvement besides just using and abusing a submissive for the hell of it. Personally, I've never encountered a female submissive who only wanted me to spank her and kick her in the crotch. On the other hand, I know a number of Dommes, switch and even submissive women that get proposition constantly by male submissives. Basically the level and degree of involvement is rather limited, and the appeal for a long term relationship just goes poof right from the start. For the most part this male submissives very much mirror the same mindset of Male Doms, that just want to use and abuse a female submissive, and keep things limited to just that. In short with D/s is basically limited to play. That's really not very D/s for a long term relationship. For me personally, If I have a part-time play partner, I'd at least would like some form of dynamic that goes past the sex and play. Basically, yes I can use somebody for all kinds of perverted kinky sexual acts or S&M play. But it kinda of cheap and shallow feeling in the end. There has to be some form of connection past sex and kink alone to make things more intense and pleasurable for me. I'm really not certain where the OP falls into the mix of things here. As somebody else pointed out, this was stopped short of being expressed. I will say this again, I tend to find that most women in general will assert themselves for a partners own welfare regardless of their friggen Orientation. Is this perhaps where you feel you connect with your female peer group? Yes, believe it or not female subs/slave will give a Dom a raised eyebrow and respectfully assert what's on their mind to their Dom/Master. As somebody else pointed out, there's a bit of a difference between spending time online on websites such as this, and from experiences gained from real life or interacting with people in the real life. At best interacting with people online and reading things posted on this message board, can give you some general insight. It's best to let your own experiences in the real time be the source of shaping your POV and perspective. Don't try to squeeze yourself into stereotypes and other people's so called Jello Molds. Be yourself kind of stuff basically.

IronBear -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 10:06:52 AM)
Having had and will have both male and female slaves, I find having both creats an equilibrium which is both harmonious and pleasing. Each gender has it's assetts and down sides it is a matter of getting the mix right.. Personally if you take both the male and female sub/slagves for a walk on their leashes it can be amusing (been there done that in some very public places half filled with tourists too).. Iron Bear Master of Bruin Cottage (A Victorian Lifestyle poly home) "I judge a Man by what I see him do and not by what others tell me he does." (Captain Sir Edward Pellew of the HMS Indefatigable to Midshipman Hornblower ~ C.S. Forrester)

gypsygrl -> RE: Male vs. female subs (6/9/2008 1:55:16 PM)
I think I kind of know what you're saying but I come at it from the opposite direction. Since I first started with this stuff, I've taken alot of inspiration from male submissives and kind of modeled my 'internal submissive ethos' on what I've observed in my local community and picked up elsewhere. Basically, I want to be like them when I grow up. Part of it is reconciling my discomfort at choosing what appears to be a traditional stereotypical feminine role, so it's kind of a 'if they can do it so can I' type thing. Plus, early on, I was very much into forced feminizattion as a form of humiliation play. (I know, I'm a girl, but I've never been very feminine and needed some pushing in that direction. I don't need much forcing anymore and its not humiliating...I just like girling it up.) And, I've always had a thing for old guard gay guys. I know I'll never be old guard, and I'll never be gay, and there's just soooo many complications with this particular preoccupation of mine but, ya know, I don't even know where it came from...its just sort of there in lodged in my imagination pestering me. I've done enough self reflection to know that these things go way back to gender ambivalences that developed in early childhood and am pretty sure they aren't going away. Basically, what it comes down to is that part of me really wants to be a guy, but not just any guy (I'm not nearlly as enamored with male dominants) but a guy who can dress like a girl and take a fuck load of pain. :)

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