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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 5:39:52 AM

Irishknight

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And you are soooo right about the price of scrap metal. I am in the process of cleaning up my property. Even old tin is bringing good money.

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 7:06:52 AM

sophia37

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Eh. Im thinking things go up, things go down. Things have been going down for at least the last three years in my line of work. Im in retail. I was hoping things would be starting to go up by this year, but I think we're all really freaking out now with the prices of everything. Sales this year for me are down by up to 50%. Ive been in business for 23 years and Ive never seen anything like this. I'd have to use a word I call hyper inflation.

Its like every day, and I mean every single day I walk out my door and buy something, the price has gone up. My pocketbook feels like it has a hole in it somewhere. Whers all my money gone? Im diligently trying to get a handle on my finaces at the moment because somewhere inside me, it feels unsettling. The last thing I want to do is run up gredit card debt. I actually feel the urge to rid myself of crap. Thats most likely a good thing. Maybe even a great thing.

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 7:34:18 AM

SimplyMichael

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"its the economy stupid"...When will people realize that Republicans can't run one?

Look at Iraq, they can't even make a third world shithole better and in fact made it far worse.

Look at GDP as a function of government spending, anything positive in the way of GDP under a republican is due to borrowing and deficit spending of taxpayer money, the opposite it true of every democrat since Carter. They have shifted the tax burden from the rich to the middle and lower class and every time you complain, they say "let us fix it" and they fuck you a little more.

Lucky for them Americans are too stupid to see it, hell they think McCain is a maverick!

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 7:35:51 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

And you are soooo right about the price of scrap metal. I am in the process of cleaning up my property. Even old tin is bringing good money.

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 7:54:07 AM

MadRabbit

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I think one of the more important questions is "Do Americans believe there is a recession?" as opposed to "Is there really a recession?"

The answer to that is "Hell yeah!". When a major news network (can't remember which one) uses the word "recession" 40 times in one week as well as other adjectives such as "bleak" and "dismissal" despite the fact that the Dow jumped 250 points recently, people are going to stash money, collect tin, tighten up their purses, and hunker down for the worse.

I think people are starting to catch onto the fact that things aren't as bad right now as they have been portrayed on CNBC and are starting to loosen up a little bit.

What the future holds as far as the aftermath of the Bush administration I have no idea, but if the news media keeps blasting the word "recession" every 5 minutes, I won't be too surprised when there is one.

If the news media spent every minute telling people that they needed to buy a special kind of soap to combatant the effects of a fictional biological weapon that had been introduced into the air, it won't be too surprising if you went to the grocery store and all of that kind of soap was sold out.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/7/2008 7:57:00 AM >

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 8:21:03 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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Mad, if not for the fact that I've got an investment broker who manages part of the family finances screaming at me that it's time to pull outta the market and hunker in because we're in a recession, I might actually agree with you. When the man who's been telling me Consistantly for 2 years that it wasn't time to worry yet - even though *I felt it was time to worry - calls me up and says 'it's time to start worrying", I tend to pay attention. (And mutter "I told you so" under my breath. lol) This is not yer average joe on the street who gets his info strictly from whatever pap mass media happens to be feeding today. It's someone who is a trained economist and accountant, who specifically works in the industry in a job that requires him to keep an eye on things personally by the hour and minute - not rely on what bill said george said sally said tim said after talking to joe.

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 11:18:00 AM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Gris, then how are we even going to be able to pay the vig on that $9Trillion debt?
That's the iceberg that's going to sink us!
No-one running for president can keep even one of their promises because the money to fund them just isn't there.
Unless, they raise taxes.

Well, I've never been a huge fan of tax increases, and I'm certainly not in Buffets income bracket where a few extra bucks sent to Washington DC won't have an impact on my day to day plans, but I have to agree with your suggestion.

And while, contrary to opinions held by many (who typically don't pay much in taxes anyway), the truth is, the wealthy are inarguably paying a vastly higher proportion of the total federal tax bite than they did 20 years ago....more than double as a percentage than in 1987, however, I share the opinion that taxes need to be raised.

I'm not sure what constitutes "equitable" on that subject, but it's fairly clear the rich (define that however you choose) can afford it more readily, and frankly, while that will put them in the unfair position of paying an even greater percentage of the whole...those on the lower, and in some cases middle, rungs simply don't have it to give.

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 12:01:44 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Gris, then how are we even going to be able to pay the vig on that $9Trillion debt?
That's the iceberg that's going to sink us!
No-one running for president can keep even one of their promises because the money to fund them just isn't there.
Unless, they raise taxes.

Well, I've never been a huge fan of tax increases, and I'm certainly not in Buffets income bracket where a few extra bucks sent to Washington DC won't have an impact on my day to day plans, but I have to agree with your suggestion.

And while, contrary to opinions held by many (who typically don't pay much in taxes anyway), the truth is, the wealthy are inarguably paying a vastly higher proportion of the total federal tax bite than they did 20 years ago....more than double as a percentage than in 1987, however, I share the opinion that taxes need to be raised.

I'm not sure what constitutes "equitable" on that subject, but it's fairly clear the rich (define that however you choose) can afford it more readily, and frankly, while that will put them in the unfair position of paying an even greater percentage of the whole...those on the lower, and in some cases middle, rungs simply don't have it to give.

Gris, are you overlooking the other option?
*CUT SPENDING*.
Half the State Dept, end *all* foreign aid, outlaw lobbyists and prosecute them, do away with the Education and Energy depts, get Troops out of all foreign countries, close all embasseys not in "first world" countries, and a few hundred other things.
Our govt has become ENOURMOUS and we can no longer afford it!
Slash, slash, slash!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 6/7/2008 12:04:54 PM >

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 12:11:21 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach

Mad, if not for the fact that I've got an investment broker who manages part of the family finances screaming at me that it's time to pull outta the market and hunker in because we're in a recession, I might actually agree with you. When the man who's been telling me Consistantly for 2 years that it wasn't time to worry yet - even though *I felt it was time to worry - calls me up and says 'it's time to start worrying", I tend to pay attention. (And mutter "I told you so" under my breath. lol) This is not yer average joe on the street who gets his info strictly from whatever pap mass media happens to be feeding today. It's someone who is a trained economist and accountant, who specifically works in the industry in a job that requires him to keep an eye on things personally by the hour and minute - not rely on what bill said george said sally said tim said after talking to joe.

I'm not denying that there isn't a lot of economic factors at work here dragging things down. I just wonder how much of this recession we are in or headed for is caused by the unending talk about how we are headed for a recession.

Ever since the housing bubble burst and the collapse of Bearn Stearns, every news channel has speculated about how bad things are and how much worse they are gonna get. Hell, even speculation on how it might not be so bad or it might be bad still has a negative impact when you still say "recession" every other word.

I don't find it all that surprising when things then continue to get worse when people begin to stop spending and tightening their budgets. The lifeblood of this giant metaphysical entity we call the "market" is consumption by consumers.

I don't blame you for doing the smart thing of covering your own ass, but unfortunately it's a double edged sword. When everyone does the smart thing (which is also synonymous with the self centered thing), then the end result is continued decline when the incline is dependent on people not doing the smart thing of spending money, buying property, and making trades.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 6/7/2008 12:13:43 PM >

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 3:45:32 PM

SugarMyChurro

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit
Ever since the housing bubble burst and the collapse of Bearn Stearns, every news channel has speculated about how bad things are and how much worse they are gonna get.

Probably to justify the bail out, let's not forget. Where's Charles Keating when we need him as a reminder of the stupidity of the American people?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

Oh look, John McCain - a crook!

Vote McCain!!!

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 5:24:27 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Gris, then how are we even going to be able to pay the vig on that $9Trillion debt?
That's the iceberg that's going to sink us!
No-one running for president can keep even one of their promises because the money to fund them just isn't there.
Unless, they raise taxes.

Well, I've never been a huge fan of tax increases, and I'm certainly not in Buffets income bracket where a few extra bucks sent to Washington DC won't have an impact on my day to day plans, but I have to agree with your suggestion.

And while, contrary to opinions held by many (who typically don't pay much in taxes anyway), the truth is, the wealthy are inarguably paying a vastly higher proportion of the total federal tax bite than they did 20 years ago....more than double as a percentage than in 1987, however, I share the opinion that taxes need to be raised.

I'm not sure what constitutes "equitable" on that subject, but it's fairly clear the rich (define that however you choose) can afford it more readily, and frankly, while that will put them in the unfair position of paying an even greater percentage of the whole...those on the lower, and in some cases middle, rungs simply don't have it to give.

Gris, are you overlooking the other option?
*CUT SPENDING*.

Yes, of course, and I considered mentioning that in my previous...but seriously...aside from Nixon (yes, Nixon indeed cut the budget, and for a very brief period, ran a surplus) and Clinton (albeit aided substantially from the tech boom...and Bush 1's tax increases)...no one's done that...so, we have to work with historical facts...those being, that (spending cuts) ain't gonna happen in your lifetime, moreover, with entitlements growing substantially...i.e., the "untouchables"....the only remaining option appears to be an increase in revenues...

That means a tax increase, as unfortunate as the facts portend.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 6/7/2008 5:37:18 PM >

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RE: Recession? Depression? Or Neither? - 6/7/2008 5:35:43 PM

Griswold

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Half the State Dept, end *all* foreign aid, outlaw lobbyists and prosecute them, do away with the Education and Energy depts, get Troops out of all foreign countries, close all embasseys not in "first world" countries, and a few hundred other things.

It'd be easy to do away with foreign aid, but for every dollar spent on foreign aid, we save 11 dollars in military expenditures...not spent defending our position. Call it a bribe if you will...that's what it really is, but without it, we'd spend even more with boots.

Education and other aid...that only puts the bill on the states (where it actually belongs, no argument, but it's a bill that has to be paid by someone...ultimately that's you in either case).

Energy, that's an arguable point, insomuch as the energy firms certainly can be debated as to having enough funds to do what needs to be done. I don't think I have enough understanding to debate that one. Archer, someone who is constantly debated (why, I'm not at all clear on since he is amazingly knowledgeable about economics, as well as energy issues) is vastly more capable of covering this topic. Perhaps he'd like to weigh in on this part.

Embassies in "first world" countries....today they are, tomorrow they're not. No one knows, and current history suggests that countries with known assets enough to make them first world...will tomorrow be less than.

30 years ago the USA was the worlds largest creditor nation...today, we're the largest debtor. 5 years ago the Middle East had a normalized GDP, in that their income generally, with some exception, covered their debt, and not much more. Indeed, Saudi Arabia only 7 years ago was spending more than they took in.

Today I doubt it takes much more than 3rd grade math to understand their position in world economics.

Tomorrow Africa will be predominant...or maybe it'll be Luxembourg...hell, it might even be Trenton NJ (unlikely...however, that's how fast events can truly change)....the world is changing fast, at lightning speed, and the only way to stay on top of any of it is to be in front of the curve...and that ultimately means our lifestyle has to change...because we have to plan for the future...and no longer steal from it.

< Message edited by Griswold -- 6/7/2008 5:39:46 PM >

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