computer rights trump human rights

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pahunkboy -> computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 4:57:27 AM)
A few of you have seen my posts over the months. You may recall problems with robo-calls, and now an excessive bank fee mess. [$590 to date] I submit the following. We have hit a tipping point where machines trump humans. Recall the big blue chess match that a man barely won? That was maybe 5 years ago. Visit our website, bull. One can not cancel service online- one cant do many functions as compared to 2 years ago. Call. Yeah- I am too fricken stupid to say the magic words to get help. As I strudied business phones- they actually are now a computer, and programmed. Nevermind if the TV makes a loud noise and the phone takes you to a different menu. So what in years past was customer service is not. http://blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=6763 More often then not the store cash register is "right" even when it charges more then the price. Errors go in the stores favor. What started as a quest for orderly business is now a blantant control factory. Aimed to suck up your money, as well as money you dont have. Recall AOL billing. Recall AOL early version -software cripples computer if you switch to a different ISP. Factor in business practice today. The only thing that gets attention is a subpeana. And the courts are stacked in many cases. We accept this. Even worse is the younger folks embrace this. Call customer service. She too is unable to over-ride the computer. Most visits to the store -my sale has to be over-rid. Which means a 2nd employee. So who controls the computer? Who controls your money? Who controls you?

pahunkboy -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 5:13:24 AM)
Everyday something breaks. Today the cheap back scratcher. When I was at Lowes, I want to know HOW MUCH ELECTRICIY does the fan take! Is it in English? barely. Small print in several languages. Being that elderly is fast growing, being that eye sight fades when one gets old; why is other languages more imporpant then a 44 year old from reading it? Back to junk- hence, I must physically open the box- tear it out and scope it out! Electric rates here went up over 4%, and jan 1, goes up 42% [+ 9% tax!] So HELL yeah- I want to know what it will cost to operate! Anything you buy today- you must measure the years it will last. So if the fan is $90 and would last 3 years, that is $30 a year; NOT counting electricity! Some models look like they last 1 year. So a 20$ fan may or may not be good. I am just a bitch lately. Ebay- and other sites. Short on product details. Tho lately I want to feel and touch before I shell out money. OH- another thing. Dont sign up for newsletters. Many are simply promos with no meat to them. Fricken pain in back and hands. It was less pain over winter months!

Smith117 -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 5:17:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Who controls you? I've never noticed any of what you describe. I've had several instances in stores where the register rang up the wrong price and I got it for what it was supposed to be. I've had more trouble dealing with customer service people on the phone than I ever did online. I can order a pizza, from Pizza Hut, online and not only have it EXACTLY as I want it, but I can pick from a list of coupons and get a better price AND have the added benefit of not reciting my address EVERY SINGLE TIME I call. It used to be that when you told a pizza place your number, they had your address right there on the screen....now pizza hut says for you to "verify" it every single time. Dominoes doesn't, but pizza hut does. So, when I order from pizza hut these days, I will ONLY do so online because I don't feel I should have to be bothered with reciting my address time and again when I KNOW it's right there on the screen in front of them.

kittinSol -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 5:25:02 AM)
I can think of ways that computers infringe on human rights, I'm just not sure stores fucking up your bill is a good example of that.

pahunkboy -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 5:37:52 AM)
Thank you Smith and Kit. I am trying to put it into words. To be sure business practices today are sleazy. When I got any job I had, the consumer of my labor did not have to agree to a 2 year contract, with a cancellation fee. Society has shifted. I believe there IS a problem, condition, mode. But how does a grown man, who has college, navigate it all? The mortgage company could not stop the computer from re-submitting 3 checks that were bill payer mistakes. [NSF] She was powerless to stop it. Hence $75 from them, AND $75 from Schwab. [in addition to the 1st round of $150.00, 3 checks total $5.02 A pharmacy will dispense what the computer says. Oh- on the bill payer mistake- while I did send a postal letter, these places have drop boxes and separate addresses for each mode of transaction. Prepaid cell phone? A racket. The minuimin, the rules to keep it active add up to about what a contract phone costs. Press a wrong button, get money reduced. Oh- I was downtown, and I needed to remember a phone number- so I texted it to me. 2x. Unfortunately - I used the wrong prefix. [850 instead of 847] So now some poor smuck who did not ask for these messages is now billed for them.

FullCircle -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 6:09:51 AM)
The more complex a system the more prone to errors it becomes. There is a stated law somewhere which umm states such. How complex is the system that controls a nuclear reactor?

SubRefuge -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 6:40:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Who controls you? If this is such an issue, move to Ethiopia where they have far fewer computers. I am sure you will be happy there.

kittinSol -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 6:41:58 AM)
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Termyn8or -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 7:11:42 AM)
Joke all you want but I think this a valid topic. I'm not awarding Hunky topic of the week or anything, but people have been arrested because of computer errors. I could put in a bad credit report on anyone, get that straightened out, it is so much fun. You know what I could do to someone ? I could lie. I could accuse anyone of a hit and run accident, all it takes is one insurance claim, then the data is at Choicepoint. Try getting that straightened out. That happened to a friend of mine and believe me it is hard to straighten out. I mentioned it before but the post got pulled because I called the scammer the N word. Anyway, if her Husband was not an idiot, we would know who this guy is. Imagine that, accused of being in an accident and not even knowing who the accident was with. After a couple of years they got it straightened out, but why should they ? In the old days someone would have just tossed a piece of paper in the trash. Now you need NSA clearance damnear to get it fixed. Look at the identity theft issue and think about it. A computer determines how much you pay for electic, gas, taxes and insurance. Not to mention a few other things. Companies have no scuples anymore, you have to watch every bill. NEVER sign up for any automatic withdrawals unless absolutely necessary and if so do it on a credit card, not your bank. And it must be something that is constant. Like I pay for my AOL, which I mainly use for the FTP space, it is a flat rate and does not change. But a cable bill ? No fucking way, with all the PPVs that can be ordered and all that, NO ! I want to see the bill each month and if somebody orders too much shit there will no longer be any cable. Same with the phone. Anything that can have additional charges, and even things that can't, they can change the rates at any time. And if you got SUCKERED into direct debit, the computer will give them your money. Joke around all you want, but wait until one of your checks bounces and you find out what the fees are these days. Like $35 + $25 + $7/day + who the fuck knows what else. I saw it happen to a buddy of mine. Because of about three dollars he can't have a bank account anymore. What's more it was a savings account and the withdrawal was by ATM. If he didn't have the money why did they give him the money ? The computer said it was OK. T

kittinSol -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 7:23:20 AM)
Somebody made a stupid, irrelevant remark about moving to Ethiopia, were you addressing them? Because I wasn't joking around.

Termyn8or -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 9:58:13 AM)
No, those first few words were for the Ethiopia promoter. But now that you mention it, I wonder what someone with a real brain, and some power and dollars backing them up could do with Ethiopia. Y'know alot of things change. But the computer has alot less to do with it than most people think. We let it happen. If all of us refused to press 1 for English the whole shebang would collapse. When we put up with it, it keeps on happening. T

pahunkboy -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 11:07:50 AM)
Thats the thing. Everyone here could refuse to ever touch a computer, but in many transactions others work THE computer. We have come to presume the computer is complicated, therefor it is right. As to Ethiopia, Im thinking there is some beauty in not being tied to the grid every single day. In theory, a person controls a computer. But lets take a corporation. A non-human enitity makes the computer, compute. How do you remedy that? Im thinking bill payer, auto-pay and similliar convenience tools are too pricey for the amount of convenience. Note that to pay most bills- you simply cant take cash to the clerk. Cash is not allowed to be mailed. So that means a check or money order or etc. But money order-think. What if the money order you used for any number of reasons was "not negotiable"? You would be assessed fee. And for cash, it floors me when a cashier uses marker on a $10 bill! To be cute, I grabbed same marker and marked the $1 bill I got in change. Cashiers also might not be able to break a $50 or a $100. Then factor in frequent shopper cards. Now you must swipe to get the sale price. You should have seen the sceen in Chicago when I used a Weis market card at the Jewel, it worked. But the cashier made a sceen, slowed the line and got her manager. If it worked, like it DID give me the discount.But think- RFIDs are coming. So it will get crazy. At one time computers made errors in my favor. Due to a centralized business model- control, override must happen at higher ranks. So "help" isnt help. Really now- if 10 of us went shopping, and we all needed the over-ride to get the sale price-then they are paying an extra employee to use the "key", well actually YOU are paying. Many wont say anything if overcharged. IMO places do this on purpose figureing some wont complain. Do you really understand the itemized of your electric, gas,phone bill? Ild like to sit down and have the credit card agreement/disclorusue read to me amd explained by a company rep. It floors me how when a store makes an error - then YOU must go to the courtesy desk. So before I pay, I make sure the amount is right. I have already walked out- abandoning the order. The customer isnt always right. The customer is a nusianse. The corp fortresses will obstruct you from communicating with them, even cell phone companies which IS in the business of communicationg! Then same corps will spend oodles of $ on consumer habits, so as to selll us less, but for more cash. 5 years ago- I navigated the phone company for mom. Now I cant seem to naviagate it for me.

DomAviator -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 12:07:13 PM)
Computers are God's gift to my life. They spare me from so much running around its not even funny. I need cartridges for my printer - poof officemax brings them the next day. I need a pizza, a few clicks and pizza hut feeds me! Need 25 sets of handouts for my seminar - a few clicks and Clickprint has them on the way to me. I even do 95% of my christmas shopping online. Online banking, online billpay etc... I think I have actually written three or four personal checks since I have lived in Houston - and that includes building a lot, buying a house, leasing an office and buying two cars, a motorcycle and a boat. Hell, I dont even need to go to the post office for stamps thanks to stamps.com. The computer is the best time saving device ever invented....

Smith117 -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 2:58:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Joke all you want but I think this a valid topic. I'm not awarding Hunky topic of the week or anything, but people have been arrested because of computer errors. I could put in a bad credit report on anyone, get that straightened out, it is so much fun. Oh I don't know...my lawyer fixed my issues fairly quickly and efficiently. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or You know what I could do to someone ? I could lie. I could accuse anyone of a hit and run accident, all it takes is one insurance claim, then the data is at Choicepoint. Try getting that straightened out. That happened to a friend of mine and believe me it is hard to straighten out. If that were to happen, all you'd need to do is hire a lawyer and show that your car isn't damaged. Problem solved. Then you could counter sue for lawyer's fees. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Look at the identity theft issue and think about it. Most decent, reputable banks and financial institutions have fraud protection. It takes a bit of work on your part, but you're still not liable if someone tries to take your identity. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or A computer determines how much you pay for electic, gas, taxes and insurance. Not to mention a few other things. Companies have no scuples anymore, you have to watch every bill. NEVER sign up for any automatic withdrawals unless absolutely necessary and if so do it on a credit card, not your bank. And it must be something that is constant. Like I pay for my AOL, which I mainly use for the FTP space, it is a flat rate and does not change. But a cable bill ? No fucking way, with all the PPVs that can be ordered and all that, NO ! I want to see the bill each month and if somebody orders too much shit there will no longer be any cable. Same with the phone. Anything that can have additional charges, and even things that can't, they can change the rates at any time. And if you got SUCKERED into direct debit, the computer will give them your money. Over the years, I've learned not to use either direct debit or AOL. That leaves me not only with a good ISP I can count on, AND I'm in full control of my funds. quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Joke around all you want, but wait until one of your checks bounces and you find out what the fees are these days. Like $35 + $25 + $7/day + who the fuck knows what else. I saw it happen to a buddy of mine. Because of about three dollars he can't have a bank account anymore. What's more it was a savings account and the withdrawal was by ATM. If he didn't have the money why did they give him the money ? Well firstly, the timing of the ATM and the timing of checks hitting his account might have been reversed. It's lame, but it happens. That is where it falls on the individual to know how much he has in his account. Oh yeah.....I don't use checks anymore either. I have had the same check book with the same checks in it for the last few years. The only problem even close to this that I've had was when every bit of information I had said that I had a certain amount of money, but in truth, my bank withheld a few transactions off the online bank statement report so I ended up going over. Still, they didn't get their money and I switch banks to one with more smarts. Now the MOMENT I use any money, put IN any money or move any money, I can look online and see it take effect INSTANTLY. Problem solved. Some banks suck and some don't.

Smith117 -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 3:04:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy The customer isnt always right. The customer is a nusianse. So be a nuisance. I never hesitate to be a complete ass when I want what I want. If I don't get what I want, I don't buy. Simple. It's partly why I LOVE shopping for cars. I make those dealers jump around like little monkeys....it's hilarious to watch.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: computer rights trump human rights (6/1/2008 4:25:06 PM)
As someone who has done the callcenter bit for entirely too long (but no longer, Cookie be praised) I have to say that there is a very good reason for the IVR... its called call flow... the average center employes roughly 500 people for each shift, and takes in over 2k calls per hour... the IVR reduces the hold time each of them has to face, as well as helping make sure they get to the right place... instead of talking to 5 different people (3 of them in India... grr) Computers make everything we do easier... you want to hand-write checks for 30k employees? or how about getting a clipboard and writing up your full inventory, in a store the size of Wal-Mart? The reason computers became so mainstream and popular is because they work and i f ya think anything is screwing you over, being a bastard usually fixes the issue quite nicely Ive discovered

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