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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 1:48:43 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Everybody is someone's baby.  Even Hitler had a mom. 


I was just hypothesizing with IM.
 
quote:

We should not sentence someone for what they WILL do.


I agree with the sentiment, not sure I agree with the why.
 
quote:

If we ever started doing that, we would find ourselves in a world that none of us would want to live in.


Don't look now, I believe it is called "intent to..."

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 1:52:46 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		"with intent to" is more a what you are trying to do, not what you will do at some point in the future.  If I assault someone and get charged with intent to kill, I was trying to kill them.  If someone looks into a magic looking glass and sees that I will kill someone ten years from now, that is something different.  I still am completely innocent of that crime and have yet to have the intent.
This gets screwed up within our drug laws because of intent to sell.  But then, our drug laws are pretty frakked up anyway.

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:00:11 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


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Status: offline 		No.

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:05:31 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		FR:  The question is sophistry.  If "magically and with 100% certainty we could somehow know the minute a baby is born,that he or she is going to someday grow up and murder a person or persons" then we would be God, or some greater being, outside of this universe.  In that case we would junk this flawed piece of work and create something better, where these questions don't get asked.

...and where there are rainbows and unicorns and sherbet and public sexual torture displays.

E.

< Message edited by Emperor1956 -- 5/27/2008 2:06:16 PM >

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:12:08 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdiotMale

Please don't think I'm crazy or want to see babies killed.But I was pondering the following question in my head today. If magically and with 100% certainty we could somehow know the minute a baby is born,that he or she is going to someday grow up and murder a person or persons,would it be wrong to put that baby to sleep in a humane way to prevent the murder/murders or let things play out and allow the inevetible to happen?


I don't believe in preemptive punishment, so, yes, it would be wrong to murder that baby.

Celeste

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:13:39 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		I was walking down the road one time with a friend. Two more people we knew, walked by us. One of the girls walking by decided it would be a good idea to “jump” me.
 
I had her on the ground, essentially choking her, to deter her from trying to hurt me.
 
Anyone going by could see I was trying to choke her, but it would have been incorrect to assume I was trying to kill her.
 
Speeding tickets are given out, because in speeding, you might crash or cause someone else to crash.
 
It seems to me, many of our laws are about what might happen.

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:16:40 PM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Watch minority report IMO

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 2:17:32 PM   
camille65


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Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		My thought was.. what if the pre-maturely killed had in fact been destined to kill someone as an adult that was an evil person. Since I don't believe in the OP as a concept I can continue it with predetermined destiny, another thing I don't believe in

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 3:56:20 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

I don't really like to deal with such a fantastical hypothesis, but yes. It would be wrong (check out eugenism).


Eugene who?

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 4:03:30 PM   
DomAviator


Posts: 1253
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline 		I think its an interesting theory and one very good justification for genocide, "well they are going to have famines, an ebola outbreak, and will be cornholed by lions anyway so lets depopulate before they suffer" I mean aside from the preemptive killing of a murderer, how about preemptively killing someone who would be better off dead because of something thats going to happen to them. "Excuse me sir, Im with the Temporal Enforcement Bureau and tommorrow youre going to have your BBQ grill explode and will recieve burns over 95% of your body and you will die a month later, please roll up your sleeve so you can be put down now. " Its a slippery slope in general.

From a moral standpoint Im not opposed to the idea of killing anyone - man , woman, child, infant, elderly... This was actually raised as an ethics question in my Aviation Preflight Indoctrination.... If you are downed behind enemy lines and hiding, and a small boy stumbles on you while looking for a ball, do you let him go or do you kill him? The "correct" answer is you kill him because he could compromise you and your duty is to return to the fleet to rejoin the fight if at all able, However, I disagree with the premise of this thread because once you start fucking around with mother nature all hell breaks loose.  

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 5:26:41 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
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Status: offline 		The thought that a speeding ticket is preemptive is slightly flawed.  You get the ticket for breaking the speed limit.  It is something you have done.  To give you a ticket because they know you are going to speed in the future is more along the lines of what we're talking about.

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 7:56:42 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

The thought that a speeding ticket is preemptive is slightly flawed.  You get the ticket for breaking the speed limit.  It is something you have done.  To give you a ticket because they know you are going to speed in the future is more along the lines of what we're talking about.



Well, yes, you get the ticket for speeding, but if there was no danger of crashing involved, why would speeding be “wrong”?

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RE: Born killers - 5/27/2008 7:58:56 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		Because the law has set that speed for that road.  That is the only thing that makes it a crime.

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 7:42:34 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		What if the baby was to cure cancer before they "murdered" someone? Would you still whack it?

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 11:29:09 AM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Because the law has set that speed for that road.  That is the only thing that makes it a crime.


 A law without a reason?

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 11:38:58 AM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Everybody is someone's baby.  Even Hitler had a mom. 

The question that started this thread has been asked many different ways over the years.  I believe that it is still used in one form or another in classes when discussing ethics.  We should not sentence someone for what they WILL do.  It is wrong.  If we ever started doing that, we would find ourselves in a world that none of us would want to live in.
IIRC my ex had that question in a similar form for an ethics class when she was working on her MBA in Global E-Commerce. It seems to be a popular one for such classes.

Personally, I could not do it. Since I cannot commit murder, I cannot morally ask another to do so. (that's my personal moral code) Succinctly, my answer is no.

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 1:37:58 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdiotMale
Please don't think I'm crazy or want to see babies killed.But I was pondering the following question in my head today. If magically and with 100% certainty we could somehow know the minute a baby is born,that he or she is going to someday grow up and murder a person or persons,would it be wrong to put that baby to sleep in a humane way to prevent the murder/murders or let things play out and alllow the inevetible to happen?


If modern society could do this it would put them killer babies on an island together and televise it.

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 3:08:59 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Status: offline 		Bad idea.  The idea of living in complete utopia is not appealing to me.  What would we learn that way?

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RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 5:41:50 PM   
Irishknight


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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

 A law without a reason?


Perhaps, but a law none the less.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Born killers - 5/28/2008 5:56:36 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

 A law without a reason?


Perhaps, but a law none the less.


 Let freedom ring, bind, blind, and rejoice in its calling.

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 40
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