RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac

RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (Full Version)

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thornhappy -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 3:31:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zarine People can no longer put up Christmas decorations because they are "offensive" to other people. Bullshit! It's all about other people forcing their beliefs or non-beliefs on other people. Do you see the contradiction between the red & green text? Your decorations could be seen as forcing your belief on unbelievers in your chosen deity. Would you have problems with being surrounded by decorations for Jewish holidays? Neo-pagan? Ba'hai? You can put up all the decorations you want on your property or on private property. But at work, the company sets the standards, and your freedom of speech doesn't apply. quote: ORIGINAL: Zarine we are all supposed to worship God, Alah, whoever, not a physical object. We don't have to worship anything/anybody. thornhappy

kittinSol -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 3:33:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zarine (...) we are all supposed to worship God, Alah, whoever, not a physical object. We are?

thornhappy -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 3:39:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator The last night of the Gulf war, when we were cleaning up the retreat on the highways of death ... ... here at age 40 I would be sitting in an office looking at maps and calculating porosity and mud weights while earning a fraction of what I do now while bored out of my mind wearing a pocket protector... The military is good to you but you get out what you put in... You're talking Desert Storm? Ended in Feb 1991? And you had a college degree upon entrance to the Navy, I believe. How long did it take from entry to deployment? thornhappy

FullCircle -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 3:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator When it was all over, and the last trap was made and the last set of wheels chocked... we had a blowout! High fiving, back slapping, "holy shit did you see...." stories, laughter , merriment, much joy and happiness and in a few of the ready rooms the booze (which is forbidden contraband on Navy ships) came out! There was no TRAUMA that was our JOB and we loved the work.... This was what we trained for, this is why we blew up all those plywood targets in Nevada.... We were like the football player who finally got off the bench and got into the game. It wasnt "traumatic" at all we wanted to fight. That's probably because your version of war is pressing a button to release a bomb from miles up in the air and you rarely see into the eyes of the people you are fighting. It's not a human experience if you can't put a face to it. I'm surprised you didn't want to solve the New Orleans refugee crisis the same way. Just drop a bomb on the camp and anyone that dies you can call an insurgent.

kittinSol -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 3:55:07 PM)
Actually...

FullCircle -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:00:55 PM)
Dot dot yes.

kittinSol -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:03:39 PM)
Scary, isn't it. Brrrrr, doesn't bear thinking about, really.

meatcleaver -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:05:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator When it was all over, and the last trap was made and the last set of wheels chocked... we had a blowout! High fiving, back slapping, "holy shit did you see...." stories, laughter , merriment, much joy and happiness and in a few of the ready rooms the booze (which is forbidden contraband on Navy ships) came out! There was no TRAUMA that was our JOB and we loved the work.... This was what we trained for, this is why we blew up all those plywood targets in Nevada.... We were like the football player who finally got off the bench and got into the game. It wasnt "traumatic" at all we wanted to fight. That's probably because your version of war is pressing a button to release a bomb from miles up in the air and you rarely see into the eyes of the people you are fighting. It's not a human experience if you can't put a face to it. I'm surprised you didn't want to solve the New Orleans refugee crisis the same way. Just drop a bomb on the camp and anyone that dies you can call an insurgent. Don't you just love video heroes. Of course DomAviator was way up in the clouds and didn't have shit to worry about other than making sure his plane was pointing in the right direction. Maybe if he had a true taste of war such as seeing the whites of his enemies eyes or worse, being caught in the open and being shot at by someone he can't see, maybe he wouldn't have such a juvenile attitude about war. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/

FullCircle -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:05:31 PM)
Yes indeed, I still remember those insurgents that had taken the day off to go to a wedding. Also the BBC news insurgent bloke too.

DomAviator -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:11:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle That's probably because your version of war is pressing a button to release a bomb from miles up in the air and you rarely see into the eyes of the people you are fighting. It's not a human experience if you can't put a face to it. I'm surprised you didn't want to solve the New Orleans refugee crisis the same way. Just drop a bomb on the camp and anyone that dies you can call an insurgent. Actually we never bombed from "miles up" we generally released below 500 feet AGL and then hustled out of there before we got fragged by our own shit... HOWEVER - to correct the misconception that pilots dont fight the war up close and personal and dont know that they are killing people I invite you to watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAxmyRau4E Now the video below is some of MY handywork and I do not apologize for it - I am damn proud of it. We kicked ass that night! THAT is how you fight , and WIN a war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdaQRGSv0k

FullCircle -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:27:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator Actually we never bombed from "miles up" we generally released below 500 feet AGL and then hustled out of there before we got fragged by our own shit... HOWEVER - to correct the misconception that pilots dont fight the war up close and personal and dont know that they are killing people I invite you to watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAxmyRau4E Now the video below is some of MY handywork and I do not apologize for it - I am damn proud of it. We kicked ass that night! THAT is how you fight , and WIN a war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdaQRGSv0k Very video game like. Of coarse those cars were checked for civilians right? Also very striking is how the firing was fairly inaccurate so much so many people were running about in all directions to escape it. Although you can instantly tell who the bad ones are so that's ok I suppose. I don't even know why you included the second video; I know all the tricks and a reaction from me you won't get today.

JohnWarren -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 4:35:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomAviator quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle That's probably because your version of war is pressing a button to release a bomb from miles up in the air and you rarely see into the eyes of the people you are fighting. It's not a human experience if you can't put a face to it. I'm surprised you didn't want to solve the New Orleans refugee crisis the same way. Just drop a bomb on the camp and anyone that dies you can call an insurgent. Actually we never bombed from "miles up" we generally released below 500 feet AGL and then hustled out of there before we got fragged by our own shit... HOWEVER - to correct the misconception that pilots dont fight the war up close and personal and dont know that they are killing people I invite you to watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKAxmyRau4E Now the video below is some of MY handywork and I do not apologize for it - I am damn proud of it. We kicked ass that night! THAT is how you fight , and WIN a war. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdaQRGSv0k I recall a quote from my days lugging a rifle in various hell holes. It was originally in Spanish but translated as "Death makes rebels of us all." This was said to point out that the local government blissfully claimed every dead body as a killed rebel... including the old lady hanging up clothing. Thing may have changed in the years, but we also had a saying, "We recognize a 'friendly' flier by the fact that it's flapping his wings." I tended to agree, having spent all too much time face down in the mud while some flyboy on "our side" expended my tax money trying to kill me.

DomAviator -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 8:35:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy You're talking Desert Storm? Ended in Feb 1991? And you had a college degree upon entrance to the Navy, I believe. How long did it take from entry to deployment? thornhappy I was 23 years old at the time of the war, and had been out of OCS a little over 2 years. I was about four months out of fleet replacement training. Yes, I had a college degree all pilots and flight officers do - except in the army which has warrant officer flight training. (I understand the Navy now has a flying warrant officer program too - but its experimental so there are only like a dozen of them.)

kdsub -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 8:41:11 PM)
When I was a warrior I was young and a killer… then I grew up…it takes time to feel the weight on your soul.

thornhappy -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 8:44:46 PM)
It's late, and although I'm sober, I'm confused. Between OCS and a 4 year degree, were you a freshman at 17? thornhappy

Irishknight -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 8:58:17 PM)
DA, First off, there are real cases of ptsd. In the past it was called "shell shock" and other names. It happens. i'm so very glad that your family is immune to it DA. Others have not been so lucky. My dad had his last flashback when I was 19. They are fucking real despite your opinion. Having said that, I will agree that the condition is falsely diagnosed waaayy to often in this country. As I pointed out, people were diagnosed as having it because Bush beat Kerry. The doctors that did that should have been stripped of their licenses and kicked out of the profession. All that nonsense was about was making a political statement. there are also a lot of malingerers in the military who use ptsd as a way to get out on a free ride by pretending to be suffering. They make it harder on the guys who need treatment. The denial of real problems is also just as bad as iagnosing false ones so try to think about that. Your pilot's license doesn't make you a doctor of psychiatry.

DomAviator -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 9:11:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy It's late, and although I'm sober, I'm confused. Between OCS and a 4 year degree, were you a freshman at 17? thornhappy Yes, I started college at 17 although I was technically a sophmore when I started college. Ie my first semester of college I already had 26 transfer credits because of HS AP classes and various liberal arts classes night classes I had taken at a community college preparation for my four year school... I had a goal in mind so I already had the Comp 100, Geog 100, Econ 101, Phil 102 etc out of the way... So between that and summer classes etc I did my BS in the 3-1/2 year plan.

NumberSix -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target prac (5/23/2008 9:47:04 PM)
I just wanna say that any sort of motherfucker can kill any other sort of motherfucker, and they will pin some ribbons on you and tell you ain't you a good boy and send you home to cheers and promises and nothing....... I can pretty much tell who has been where and done what by how they react to shit. And I can tell you that the foibles and bravados of youth FADE like a motherfucker. Now, I am not opposed to killing a motherfucker, but hell realistically, even on my best day, now; hand to hand one of the 20 somethings got a hell of a good shot at winnning me in a fight, because it is a fight, with all the rigamarole, and we plan to wake up in our beds someday. All this talking head shit out here wears me out. enough. Ron

FatDomDaddy -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 10:50:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The weird thing is though FDD, I, a "filthy heathen" have six Bibles; five of them the former cherished possessions of elderly patients of my ex, who were happy for me to look after them when they passed. And despite my feelings about the "foreign cult" I do so. The other weird thing is that one of my friends, another "filthy heathen", found a Koran in the street, all written in Arabic. He took it to the Mosque and was thanked profusely for looking after it and bringing it to them. They explained that the book itself is worthless - but the words it contains make it priceless to them. How come some dont get it? E The Koran like The Bible is a book. Human beings have Free Will to ignore or cherish both. They also should have Free Speech to decide their feelings about said books no matter how offensive their views be. Of course... The Koran and Islam denies free will to it's faithful. Islam means submission to the will of allah. there is no othe choice. So at some point you must take a stand. I choose Free Will and Free Speech. How about you?

Irishknight -> RE: PTSD and BAGHDAD (AP) - An American soldier used a Quran, the Islamic holy book, for target practice (5/23/2008 10:53:28 PM)
Some could say the same about the bible

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