RE: Perspective.

RE: Perspective. (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> RE: Perspective. (5/22/2008 1:38:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: DominantJenny quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin snip there are some things that I don't want to understand. snip Doesn't mean I have to relate to it or understand it. Now all of that hinges on that "C' word. If you are doing something that crosses THAT boundary, if someone has not consented or is incapable of consenting....well then I can be pretty doggone intolerant. I have never understood the notion that just because we actively participate in this lifestyle that we are somehow bound to be tolerant and understanding of everything that happens here. Why don't you want to understand them? I don't understand that at all. I am not saying anyone HAS to relate to or understand anything. I AM saying that I find it heartening when they choose to do so and disappointing when they don't. Not that my opinion matters to anyone who doesn't know me. Agreed; lack of consent is a fundamental human violation and never acceptable. As I said in my initial post, I expect more tolerance from people who have been victims of intolerance themselves, because logic suggests they therefore have a certain level of empathy...knowing how something was hurtful or harmful to yourself should, logically, enable you to understand that doing it to others is hurtful and/or harmful to them. That's all. As an example, there are people who like to play with, roll around in and cover themselves with, lick and eat feces. There is absolutely nothing about that that I have any desire to understand. To be honest, the thought of it is absolutely respulsive to me. Do I tolerate it? Sure....but I have no desire to see it, hear about it....but as long as I don't have to participate in any way.....go for it, more power to ya. There are also a whole bunch of people who stand under this BDSM or lifestyle umbrella, a lifestyle that I just happen to care a lot about, who have no business being here. They come here because they are women or man hating abusers and this field is ripe for the picking of willing or unsuspecting victims. There is nothing about that scenario that I have to or will tolerate. Everyone yaks about how you have to be tolerant and I'm sorry but, oh hell no I don't. Wrong is wrong and I don't care what fancy package you wrap it in. A year or so ago there was a "dominant" in our local community. He was down on his luck and I let him stay at my home for a short time. He would bring me little trinkets and gifts. At first I accepted them graciously but told him that it made me very uncomfortable. He didn't listen and I had to tell him that I would not accept them. Then I started to hear some rumors....about this "relationship" that he was in with me and how I was the love of his life. Um....we had NO relationship. When I confronted him about it he sheepishly admitted that he had been telling people that. I told him he would have to leave. A few months later I started getting phone calls from submissives. A LOT of submissives...asking me if I knew where he was. Apparently he was engaged...yes...ENGAGED....to about 5 of them. Yes, he was a smooooooooth talking man. All brand new in the lifestyle. They weren't hard targets. As they cried and poured out their stories to me some things started coming to light and some puzzle pieces started to fit. Turns out that the man was actually married....not divorced for 5 years like everyone thought. He showered them all with gifts and trinkets.....which he stole from the homes of the other girls, including me. Heirloom jewelry, crystal, diamond rings....nothing was off limits to him. Well as it turns out I did know how to contact him...so I did....and asked him to go to dinner with me. Little did he know that all of the girls would be there too. If you could have seen the look on his face! He was trapped. So the girls all sat down and swapped the jewelry off their necks with the girls who had the ones they originally owned. I told him that his days of using this community to find his victims was over....and I would see to it. He devastated those girls. He's damn lucky I didn't have him arrested on the spot. So tolerance? Pffffffftttttt! UH-huh................... HUH???????????????............. How does you being bitter and angry about someone screwing you over translate into an excuse for intolerance?

Justme696 -> RE: Perspective. (5/22/2008 1:53:09 PM)
quote: As I always say and totally believe. There is NO vanilla. There is levels of kink. People use the term vanilla to make a them and us - to feel as though they belong to something special or do something doesn't saying there is no Vanilla do the same... vanilla can be one of the levels of kink.

RCdc -> RE: Perspective. (5/22/2008 2:01:27 PM)
Absolutely D - vanilla is a level - it isn't seperate from kink. It isn't 'BDSM Vs Vanilla' it's a sliding scale. the.dark.

Prinsexx -> RE: Perspective. (5/22/2008 2:13:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark As I always say and totally believe. There is NO vanilla. There is levels of kink. I think there is both not-vanilla and is-vanilla if you see what I am saying. I think whereas I have 'broken out' of my vanillaness and can look back and say: that was 'straight', that was vanilla and so forth....then I have come to see it on a sliding scale. I didn't give up being vanilla.....simple honest to goodness without kink love-making after a scene is fabulous. So that's the world where there can be no vanilla in itself. It's a kind of innocence that's lost world? A no turning back. Whereas I think there is a vanilla world. Held in place by fear, repression, conformity, fundamentalism (of many kinds), mores and taboos. I have neighbours: married for longer than I have been al;ive (and that's some) who have never, would never, coud never even consider a relationship with any other livig person, have at their own admission, rarely seen each other without clothes with the light switched on. They are like innocent children who delight in the naughtiness of sea-side picture post card humour. Even a blue jooke is a step too far. Very recently I have paid a great deal more attention to having integrity within myself. To being open minded and not judging others. I know I can be taken to extremes and have had those relationships where I would not even want to begin to discuss what went down even with others in this so-called lifestyle. What I am trying to say is that whereas I can and have done some pretty wild and edgy, risky stuff, I can at the same time judge others according to a different standard. It's a type of hypocrisy (sp?). And then there is the other end of this bdsm spectrum which I would like to believe holds true for most: taboo. But of course where have all the taboos gone? I am on a journey I would say which is the middle way: guided by taboo to one side and vanilla-straight on the other. However (and this is where there is a big however), because of my nature someone will come along and 'push' 'shape' 'train' 'expect' 'reward' 'punish' 'mold' 'temper' 'sculpt' (and s forth) me into unknown territory. There'll be a whole new place from which I am coming and a whole new vantage point from which I will try (and likely fail) not to judge others.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Perspective. (5/22/2008 8:05:02 PM)
I have no problems with people going "ew" Trust me, I have more than a few "ew" things in my life that I will fully and openly share for fear of someone presuming to try it with me. It's the "ew YOU are really gross for doing it" that's the problem. Kinky people are like everyone else, newbies would be a lot better off to not make kinky people different from vanillas rather than creating a false idea that we're different and then learning the obvious that we're not.

RCdc -> RE: Perspective. (5/23/2008 3:51:31 AM)
Even a couple who have never seen themselves naked will - as individuals - have something that turns them on, on some level, whether they accept it or not due to social/religious/whatever pressure unless they are completely asexual. And being asexual is not in itself 'vanilla' in any sense, whatsoever. Everyone has a liking that is peculiar to others and unique to ourselves - sexually or non sexual. I do not believe that vanilla exists other than Justme said - as a kink in itself. Kink is not the domain of BDSM orientated people. It exists and is not owned by dominants and submissives only. Show me one non-asexual person who does not claim to practise BDSM, who does not 'live the lifestyle', who is not part of 'the community' who isn't sexually turned on by something - even if that something is the missionary position - or anyone who doesn't have a peculiarity that is theirs and I shall hang up my idea and retire. Until then, I completely don't get why people have to seperate everyone into neat little .themandus. boxes and assume that them and us are different. We are not. the.dark.

pettingdragons -> RE: Perspective. (5/23/2008 4:06:49 AM)
of course we are not different...my mother prays in a church on her knees and asks frogiviness from god.....i get on my knees with Master behide me and pray for his forgivness or at least praying to multiple gods depending on what he is back there doing.......[;)] pettingdragons MasterDragons considered slave

RCdc -> RE: Perspective. (5/23/2008 4:10:55 AM)
Amen! (.yikes. I just could not resist[;)]) the.dark.

Sundowner -> RE: Perspective. (5/23/2008 6:16:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark ... There is NO vanilla. There is levels of kink. ... Tolerant people in BDSM ? Absolutely not the case. ... the.dark. I'm with dark in thinking there isn't a simple vanilla/kinky divide - there are just different turn-ons for different people - and I'm with her in thinking there are some hugely intolerant ppl in CM! As to the op question of "shouldn't we be trying to understand and relate on some level?" I can't say I feel an obligation to understand other people or relate to them. I'll want to understand or relate to some people (I'd love to relate to dark for example, but that's just because I'm shallow and she's sexy and I know there's a chance Darcy's not reading this [sm=smile.gif]). But I don't feel a need to relate to StupidRanter when he or she posts something I don't understand; I'll just move on with my life. It's more complex than that though. I think we should be tolerant of others, but qualified tolerant not blanket tolerant. So I'm pretty intolerant of murderers and paedophiles. And of course for us to decide what can or can't, should or shouldn't, be tolerated we have to make judgements and it would be better if those judgements were informed ones. So maybe op's "shouldn't we be trying to understand and relate on some level?" is a vital element of society's mechanism. Tricky one. I'm one hundred per cent in favour of "you mustn't stick your dick in little children and if you do we'll hunt you down and stop you". But understanding people who want to do that? I've never tried - basic gut instinct stops me even beginning to try. But "you mustn't eat your partner's shit"? It's not my scene but I can understand its attraction. Or "you mustn't put a nappy on and pretend to be a baby"? It's not my scene and I can't understand its attraction. But no way am I going to hate people who are into scat or infantilism, and I'm certainly not going to try to stop them. So I suppose we have to make judgements - broadly is this activity harmful to others - before deciding whether we (society) should be intolerant and those judgements, those decisions, should be informed ones. Sorry - that was all thinking-out-loud stuff. The natural conclusion is that, if you consider yourself a member of society, it's your duty to get out there and start studying each and every kink you can find so we can all judge whether to tolerate it or not. Bums. More work.

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