DomAviator
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Joined: 4/22/2008
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ORIGINAL: hizgeorgiapeach
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ORIGINAL: DomAviator
Yeah I know and thats the problem... There should be no dumbasses flying. I kind of hate the VFR only 40 hour private pilot rating. ... If it were up to me, which unfortunately it isnt, the time for private would be expanded to 100 hours and would include a mandatory instrument rating. ... The law is (for VFR) 30 minutes of fuel reserve in the daytime 45 at night, and I personally always fly to instrument standards - fuel to the intended airport, then the alternate, then an addl 45 min.
Ok, I've been avoiding this thread for a variety of reasons - the main one being fear that it would turn into a glorified religious fest. But after reading the thread all the way through this morning, I just Have to make a few comments.
I'm one of those Part 61 ( the part with 40hr minimums) Private SEL fixedwing folks. My Instrument rate I got via a Part 141 school. Part 141 had Lower minimum hours than Part 61 when I did my training. Just because it's a "school" is NOT necessarily an indication that they somehow turn out "better" pilots. From personal experience going from Part 61 training to Part 141 training and then back to Part 61 training, it was just the opposite.
By the time I took my private checkride with the FAA, I had logged almost 100 hours of PIC time - due to my CFI's insistance on certain things. Anal sumbiatch that he was, with his Own reputation to worry about (he'd never had a student fail to pass the practical on their first attempt) it was a very rare case when he would sign someone off for their checkride at the 40hr minimum. I flew with him during my primary training, and again when I went through commercial training. During the nearly 3.5 years that he and I regularly flew together and associated together as friends, I only saw him sign someone off at minimums Once, and that one person obviously wasn't me. I flew my Private checkride to Commercial standards - much stricter than the Private standards mandated by FARs.
I passed first time out the gate with flying colors (pun intended) because my CFI insisted on the one thing that can make or break a pilot, but which was absolutely shirked by the Part 141 school I later attened - Good Judgement. I was taking courses at college during that whole period - both during primary and secondary flight training - working on a degree in Aviation. (Got the rates from the FAA, never got around to finishing the degree.) An instructor in one of the required courses pointed something out during class one day that has never left me. "We can teach a Chimpanzee to operate the controls of an aircraft properly. To take off, fly straight and level, and land. What we can Not teach that Chimp is a little something refered to as Good Pilot Judgement."
Why do I say that Good Judgement was shirked by the part 141 training I went through? Hmmm. could be because none of the students who had been in part 141 from the start showed any. Or how about the fact that I was the only one who routinely did Thorough pre-flights, and therefore was prone to grounding aircraft for things that should have been Painfully Obvious to my fellow students? (Things that, quite bluntly, were serious accidents waiting to happen, like major oil leaks and frayed fuel lines.) Oh I know - maybe it's the fact that out of the 38 students in the program, I was the Only One who had been through Part 61 primary training, and I was ALSO the Only One who Never failed a spot check to go on to the next section of the cirriculum! Hmmm... come to think of it, I was also the only one who didn't Worry about whether I was going to pass my FAA practical first time out, and the only one the Instructors didn't worry about whether I would pass first time out. (Funny thing that, over half the students had to take the FAA flight practical 2 or 3 times, and most of them had had to take the Private practical 2 or 3 times to pass as well! And they were flying to Private practical minimums, Not commercial practical minimums.) The instructors at the 141 school Hated me, because I insisted on maintaining a higher standard than they taught for Private SEL, and because I was frequently (vocally) critical of techniques that glossed over safety issues and good pilot judgement. Knowing that I was the one student they didn't have to worry about Failing a practical didn't keep them from hating my guts and wishing (sometimes vocally and pointedly) that I would go away and go back to Part 61 training.
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ORIGINAL Irishknight
In my circumstance, the praying amounted to "Ohfuckohfuckohfuckohfuck......" Apparently, somewhere there seems to be a god or goddess who answers to that because we came down with only minor damage to the craft and some soiled underwear.
Venus - goddess of Love, Lust, and the Sensual Arts. Saying "ohfuckohfuckohfuck" repeatedly would no doubt grab her attention!
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ORIGINAL DomAviator
you have NOTHING to worry about in helicopters, Uh huh... you're in an aircraft that has the flight characteristics of a Bumblebee and which is all held together by a Jesus Nut and an oh-my-gawd Cauter Pin. (So named because if the mechanic screws up and that cauter pin slips out or gets forgotten, the nut will then unscrew itself - causing you to scream "OMG, Jesus Save Me!" as the rotors seperate from the body.) A lil rotorcraft joke I was introduced to by a former airframe/avionics mech buddy of mine...
As for an Instrument Rate helping JFK Jr? I doubt it would have done him any good, since from my perspective he ignored several VFRs anyway. I have an instrument rate but - like many pilots who are rated but Not professionals working in the field - don't fly in IFR conditions, or even under the hood, with any regularity or true frequency. I certainly don't do so frequently enough to be confident that my Instrument rate would necessarily be the deciding factor in saving my hide if I flew into IFR conditions, though it would be a deciding factor on me potentially staying in the air long enough to get back to VFR. You CAN see weather coming on if you're actually Following VFR rules and paying attention to what is Outside the aircraft. Oklahoma weather tends to brew up FAST during the Spring and Summer - like in 15 Minutes fast going from clear blue to having thunderheads rolling in at an alarming rate and being in visual contact with lightening strikes. I've watched it happen my whole life, both from the ground and (unfortunately) while in flight in the practice area northwest of PWA (Wiley Post Airport, on the north edge of OKC Metro for those who aren't in Aviation.) Point being - it can still be seen coming from a ways off when at altitude, and therefore vectors requested from ATC for return to VFR conditions or landing. One of the precepts I was taught during primary training for VFR was - if the weather starts to deteriorate into IFR conditions - you get your ass on the ground at the nearest airport, period, and wait it out. A delay in your flight and a 5 minute phone call to let someone know you got grounded by inclimate weather are a small price to pay for your life. Another Rule of VFR SEL - you do not fly out of Visual Contact with (sight of) Land, period.
Rhi, A few things. I wasnt bashing Part 61. In fact I train under 61 and 142. (Not 141) However, its seems your Part 61 instructor was (like me) a hardass. There are a lot of CFI's out there who are timebuilders who havent even gotten the card yet and are already signing off students on the temporary certificate printed out from IACRA. I dont need to build time, my log book will impress any insurance company... However, in either Part 61 or Part 141 schools there are a lot of 250 hour wonderkids (who actually take their CFI and Commercial checkrides on the same morning and teach that afternoon.) and the only thing they care about is getting 1500 hours so they can get the fuck out of there and into the right seat of a commuter. Any training is only as good as the instuctor, and there are a lot of 19 year old CFI's who are proud as hell to earn $10 an hour who lack the balls to stand up to that type A personality doctor, lawyer, or businessman who is paying $120 an hour for lessons and wants his sign off NOW cause he has completed all the requirements and has hit 40 hours. People trained right dont run out of fuel, forget to switch tanks, etc... I seldom do primary training because I dont want to deal with those people - I only do private for special situations like my lawyer, girlfriends, business associates, airline pilots teenage kids, etc... and they get MY version of a private pilot syllabus which is integrated instrument with cross country from hop 1 , and which is essentially the US Navy primary flight training program with the non appliccable formation work removed. I even leave in SOME of the aerobatics so they can learn unusual attitude recovery should they find themselves knocked around by wake turbulence or a mountain wave etc... Also all of mine have had about 10 hours in my PCATD before we get to the airplane and they have all passed the FAA written before we start flying cause the cockpit isnt the place to teach ground school in my opinion.
LOL yes the Jesus nut is a scary thought but for the most part I love helicopters. Fun little things they are... See I dont know if you have ever flown anything that burns kerosene - but the bigger the aircraft the less you fly it and the more you babysit systems. I did some crop dusting just because I wanted to fly a simple overpowered aircraft heavily loaded aircraft with a shiftring CG close to the ground while maneuvering agressively. Helicopters require you to "FLY" them, whereas a heavy or even corporate jet wants a programmer / babysitter.
As for the Kennedy thing - I disagree. Single engine over water ops are quite safe and I did them regularly. As for instrument currency, everyone should maintain it even if it means buying a copy of ASA's On Top. However, "instrument currency" in the classic sense doesnt even apply to what happened to Kennedy. It doesnt matter if he shot his six approaches, holding patterns etc cause he didnt die in the approach phase. What killed him was a lack of simple attitude instrument flying skills and there is no currency needed for that its common sense . In straight and level flight the altimeter will ALWAYS be primary for pitch if its changing, and that change is supported by the VSI and Attitude Indicator you are climbing or descending, the heading indicator will ALWAYS be primary for bank and if the turn coordinator, compass, and attitude indicator support it you are turning, and the Airspeed indicactor will always be primary for power and if it changes without you touching the throttle something is happening. If you have multiple instruments showing you are losing altitude, turning, and accellerating if doesnt matter what your ear tells you - you are in a spiral dive. Thats not magic like shooting an ILS to cat 2 minimums thats simple understanding of the four forces and three axis and IMHO all private pilots should understand that and my students know it before they solo.
However, instrument currency aside - I fly ALL cross country instrument so I never have a shortage of approaches, intercepts, and holding patterns. If the airport has an approach I use it. Even if it is Ellington Field to Galveston or LaPorte. I like the routing, the radar separation etc... If Im going to take some chick on a ride around the traffic pattern I will do it VFR weather permitting, but if Im going cross country and there are approaches available I will file IFR and take the SD's and published approaches. That way Im always current.
< Message edited by DomAviator -- 5/23/2008 12:31:06 PM >
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RE: Pilots run out of fuel, start praying... - 
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are eventually going to wind up in the secondary market that contracts out crew training and / or leases crews (Im essentially a "pilot pimp" I train and whore out pilots to companies that need them) so I better get with it and pick up some airbus ratings or Im going to lose market opportunities.
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