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RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:10:39 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

I have seen people scream from pain from a blood pressure cuff going up.
i have also seen a sub get a beating such that all the other subs in the room were cringing.




I've done both of these (hey, you try 7 consecutive blood tests cos the student can't read the machine and they want one standing, one sitting, and on and on).

Not only in pain subjective, but different types of pain feel different so, "I like to beat subs" is not as communicative as "I like to beat subs with crops".  I love crops, tolerate canes, like whips... depending on what you're going to beat me with will depend on how hard you can beat me, just cos I like some things more than others.

And, no, you can't test my bp.

(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:13:06 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

And, no, you can't test my bp.

LOL... wouldn't be your BP most of us would want to test.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:15:11 PM   
IvyMorgan


Posts: 729
Joined: 7/5/2007
From: Midlands, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

And, no, you can't test my bp.

LOL... wouldn't be your BP most of us would want to test.


Let me guess, you'd rather do a full blood count?

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:16:09 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:


I have seen people scream from pain from a blood pressure cuff going up.


Yea, that would be me. I had a nightmare experience with a bloodpressure cuff that kept sqeezing tighter and tighter when being monitored before the birth of my son. I have never had such sever bruising as with that! I hate the cane but I would pick caneing before a bloodpressure cuff!


_____________________________

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Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
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(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:26:17 PM   
MisfitKat


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/16/2008
Status: offline 		I have low blood preasure and they constantly ump the cuff till my fingures hurt i like almost stomped on the nurse cause well i am not sp sub when i hav contractions and a bitch with a cuff killing me


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 4:42:38 PM   
derfrewop


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Vancouver
Status: offline 		Oh Oh Oh I Know the answer on this one!!!

Stop thinking of scales. Stop thinking about just pain. Humans have a wide range of accuracy in their senses. That is why there are coffee testers, sneaker odor raters, cyanide sniffers, perfect pitches and many other jobs based strictly on sensory skill.  Touch is no exception. Some people can tell the difference between grades of cashmere while others can't tell if they are wearing silk or burlap.

If you flog a person can tell alpaca from mohair blindfolded, you are probably going to overload their sense of touch, way beyond painful. These people exist and often unknowingly have what is becoming known as Sensory Hyperarousal Syndrome. This is not so much a disease as a set of problems that develop because they really don't sense things the way most people do.

For our purposes, we just need a quick and dirty way to tell if somebody might have a more sensitive touch than normal. Usually, you can pick up clues fairly easy from conversation.

If they say:
I'm a Texture Junkie
I constantly took my clothes off as a kid
That doesn't feel right.
They are always using words related to touch or feeling or contact.

If their actions include a lot of:
Touching of things to establish location. (Sit at a table: touch the chair, the table, the glasses, the dishes etc)
Reluctance to touch unknown materials.
Constant touching of known and enjoyed materials.

BDSM discussion answers:
I Hate Stingy and Love Thuddy
I love the different textures of the implements


You should have an idea of the types of things to look for. Basically, a person will usually give a strong hint if they have a very sensitive touch. Pay attention and you will usually know (Not to mention that great big dollop of "master can read my mind" that getting this right will give you). You will probably never encounter somebody with full blown SHS. However, all of us are somewhere between hypersensitive and insensitive, so most of these clues apply to everybody at some time but about a quarter of people have rather more sensitive touch than the rest of humanity most of the time.

If you are going to flog someone you think might have overly sensitive skin there are lots of options.

1) Make them wear something to take away the sting. The thud they can feel inside is way better for them than the overpowering sting felt on thier skin.

2)Start very very gentle and increase intensity very very slowly. A person with hypersensitive skin can in fact take just as hard pushiment as anyne else, but you must first take a very long time to get them there.

3)Use multiple textures. Like a hard rubber paddle, a suede flogger and a feather.



_____________________________

I only flog good girls. I don't reward bad behavior.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 5:12:17 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: derfrewop

2)Start very very gentle and increase intensity very very slowly. A person with hypersensitive skin can in fact take just as hard pushiment as anyne else, but you must first take a very long time to get them there.

3)Use multiple textures. Like a hard rubber paddle, a suede flogger and a feather.


Ding ding ding ding ding!  And We Have  A Winner!  I cannot even  Begin to explain the often confused looks when I try to tell sadists that I'm playing with "you're going to have to give me a warm up period."  They look at me like they're expecting me to start doing a series of warmup stretchs similar to what I would use at the gym or before a long hike.  Or the confusion of the ones who refuse to do so (typically because they don't consider it "domly" enough and ignore that I'm NOT a submissive) who then get told 2 minutes in to stop if they don't want me to break their arm as soon as I get out of the restraints.  The Really annoying ones those are the ones that just barely get me past a warm up and they think they're done - uh, 'scuse me, but if I'm not finished yet call for backup from another sadist while you rest your arm.
 
A LOT of things can cause hypersensativity - not simply in All of our skin, but strictly in certain Areas of skin, or not all the time hypersensativity.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 5:17:28 PM   
camille65


Posts: 5746
Joined: 7/11/2007
From: Austin Texas
Status: offline 		Nicely said derfrewop!

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/19/2008 5:47:10 PM   
MisfitKat


Posts: 13
Joined: 4/16/2008
Status: offline 		hizgeorgiapeach  agree adimately on all counts

(in reply to camille65)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 7:48:52 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: DominantJenny

*nod* But what about when the differences aren't so clear cut? I might say I'm very into giving pain ('cause I am, actually), and she might say she's a painslut, but it turns out when we scene that her definition and mine were off by a dramatic degree...

Yes... but in saying that, you haven't really said anything concrete.  That's why you need to discuss specific activities, specific examples.  I can tell someone that I'm somewhat sadistic... sometimes... which is true... but what does that mean?  Odds are you don't know and neither does anyone else reading this who doesn't know me personally.  But, if I say that I like to give bare bottom spankings with my hand several times a week and that maybe about once a week I like doing something more intense such as using a crop on her pussy until she is crying.... that's much more specific, that people can relate to well enough to say "I'd probably be into that" or "I don't think I'd like that".  But note the difference, I moved from using largely subjective terms to using more concrete example... specifics.


Your second (the successful example) was far less concrete than your first (not so successful) one, which is why I used the one I did.
I agree that specificity helps, however, I can say I like to spank. (In fact, having some OCD tendencies, I usually count in my head how many times I hit, even, so, say, anywhere from 40 or so to over 100 individual swats.) I don't hold back when I hit, but I'm not physically that strong...by my own definition. I can haul my 40 pound child around when I have to, but I avoid it; I don't regularly lift weights (anymore), so I can't give a nice, semi-objective assessment of my strength.
You are right in that, with enough discussion, one is fairly likely to be able to avoid a drastic variation in levels, but it's still a very hard to quantify thing, far too much subjectivity involved even when we try to be concrete.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 8:06:11 AM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: derfrewop

Oh Oh Oh I Know the answer on this one!!!

Stop thinking of scales. Stop thinking about just pain. Humans have a wide range of accuracy in their senses. That is why there are coffee testers, sneaker odor raters, cyanide sniffers, perfect pitches and many other jobs based strictly on sensory skill.  Touch is no exception. Some people can tell the difference between grades of cashmere while others can't tell if they are wearing silk or burlap.

If you flog a person can tell alpaca from mohair blindfolded, you are probably going to overload their sense of touch, way beyond painful. These people exist and often unknowingly have what is becoming known as Sensory Hyperarousal Syndrome. This is not so much a disease as a set of problems that develop because they really don't sense things the way most people do.

For our purposes, we just need a quick and dirty way to tell if somebody might have a more sensitive touch than normal. Usually, you can pick up clues fairly easy from conversation.

If they say:
I'm a Texture Junkie
I constantly took my clothes off as a kid
That doesn't feel right.
They are always using words related to touch or feeling or contact.

If their actions include a lot of:
Touching of things to establish location. (Sit at a table: touch the chair, the table, the glasses, the dishes etc)
Reluctance to touch unknown materials.
Constant touching of known and enjoyed materials.

BDSM discussion answers:
I Hate Stingy and Love Thuddy
I love the different textures of the implements


You should have an idea of the types of things to look for. Basically, a person will usually give a strong hint if they have a very sensitive touch. Pay attention and you will usually know (Not to mention that great big dollop of "master can read my mind" that getting this right will give you). You will probably never encounter somebody with full blown SHS. However, all of us are somewhere between hypersensitive and insensitive, so most of these clues apply to everybody at some time but about a quarter of people have rather more sensitive touch than the rest of humanity most of the time.

If you are going to flog someone you think might have overly sensitive skin there are lots of options.

1) Make them wear something to take away the sting. The thud they can feel inside is way better for them than the overpowering sting felt on thier skin.

2)Start very very gentle and increase intensity very very slowly. A person with hypersensitive skin can in fact take just as hard pushiment as anyne else, but you must first take a very long time to get them there.

3)Use multiple textures. Like a hard rubber paddle, a suede flogger and a feather.




THAT was actually very helpful...you mentioned a lot of clues I had not thought about picking up on. Thank you.

(in reply to derfrewop)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 10:35:22 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Subjective or not, I think if you ask someone where on a scale of 1 - 10 can they tolerate pain, and they say 3 tops then you know that they aren't a match for someone who considers him/herself an extreme sadist.

_____________________________

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Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 12:03:57 PM   
DominantJenny


Posts: 645
Joined: 4/6/2008
Status: offline 		Depends on how accurate that "extreme sadist" assessment is, though.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 12:51:11 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: derfrewop
they say:
I'm a Texture Junkie
IThat doesn't feel right.

constant touching of known and enjoyed materials.

BDSM discussion answers:
I Hate Stingy and Love Thuddy





Me me memememememem   -  i love to stroke over and over again Sirs soft skin - to the point he gets irritated with me. I can touch fabric and tell you what it is  make of - of course , being a quilter, i have been know to go to fabric shops and fondle the merchandise!  Love cats - not in the least for the texture and softness of their fur - the snooty attitude is good too.lol.
Hate to touch polyester - makes my skin crawl.
I carve wood, and love it when i get the wood to the point of perfect smoothness, i will rub it against my face because it feels good.  and on and on and on and on.

and i need a warm up . If Sir wacks me with a cane with no warmup, i come unglued - in a bad way. Of course sometimes the warmup isn't as long as i would like ,lol, but what in life is.

(in reply to derfrewop)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The subjectivity of pain. - 5/20/2008 6:28:29 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		What is the motivation behind what you dole out?  Are you motivated to cause pain, to use certain toys, cause certain types of marks or engage in certain types of play?  Depending on your motivation will depend on what you talk about. 

Often I see many people express that they are sadist and enjoy causing someone pain, but when I listen to them, what they actually want to do is use certain toys and do certain things that they find fun and think is painful.  As an example, a top who is motivated to cause pain and uses a cane on Alandra is going to be pretty disappointed because she doesn't find them all that painful.  However, if their motivation is to enjoy using a cane on someone who has a high tolerance for them, then they will enjoy themselves.

In the end though, I have found the best way to judge how a person likes to play is to watch them play.   

Knight's Kyra



_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to DominantJenny)
Profile   Post #: 35
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