RE: Is the internet protected?

RE: Is the internet protected? (Full Version)

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MmeGigs -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 12:50:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 Just curious..who controls the ISP/forum-owners's that they do their work correct. It could lead to censorship..not? (if they just delete one opinion) Free speech is really a very limited right. I don't have the right to say anything I want any time and anywhere I want to say it. I can't engage in fraud, slander, incitement to crime or violence, copyright violations, etc., whether I'm speaking online or in any other venue. My right to free speech does not include a right to be heard - I can say a lot of stuff, but no one is obligated to publish it. An ISP could use its abilities to censor opinions and block particular content with which it does not agree, but as a practical matter, they're in the access business, not the content business. Filtering content is time-consuming, expensive and unpopular, and not something that an ISP is likely to do unless they're trying to appeal to a particular demographic or are forced into it by the govt under which they operate. The TOS and AUP for most ISP's in the US generally restrict those things that are either already not covered by free speech protections or that are likely to cause problems for the ISP, like spam and violations of the rules or charters of other venues. For those who find the restrictions to restrictive, there are anonymizers and services they can use to get their message out there or find the info they're looking for. Forums are a different matter. If I run a forum, I make the rules and can control the content if I choose. If I don't like what you have to say I can ban you or delete your posts. This may be frustrating for you, but it is not restricting your right to free speech. There's nothing I can do to stop you from saying what's on your mind outside of my forum. All in all, this control that ISP's and forums can exercise is a good thing. The anonymity of the internet allows people to get their opinions out there, which is good, but it also allows them to unleash their inner asshole with few consequences, and there seem to be a heck of a lot of people who want to take full advantage of this capability. If forums and ISP's had no ability to control what was put out there in or through them, the internet would be a smoking cesspit of spam, scams, phishing, and ugliness. I'm not a big fan of moderation of discussion venues, but having seen what happens to unmoderated venues I accept that moderation is a neccessity.

Justme696 -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 1:00:27 PM)
ok, I am not american....but i got this last week from some one..about a similar discussion. __ First Amendment protections extend to speech via the Internet. Through the use of web pages, mail exploders and newsgroups, [any person] can become a pamphleteer. Reno, 521 U.S. 870, 117 S.Ct. 2329 __ Bidbay.com Inc. v. Spry, No. B160126 (Cal. Ct. App, 2d App. Dist., 2003) (unpublished case-persuasive authority only). A California court ruled on Internet chat rooms and the First Amendment. Plaintiff Bidbay.com brought a suit for defamation against Bruce Spry for posting allegedly libelous statements in an online chat room. Spry moved to dismiss the action under California's anti-strategic lawsuits against public participation law (Anti-SLAPP law). California's Anti-SLAPP Bidbay.com argued that the Anti-SLAPP law did not apply because the online chat room was not a public forum because it had prevented Bidbay from posting a rebuttal to the statements. The court disagreed and dismissed the case stating that an online chat room is a public forum, even if the operator of the chat room controls the content of the statements posted on the site. _____ that is what I meant in my previous post. I found it quit interesting. @all posted above. What I don't understand is that an individual (ISP or Forum owner) stands above the law. Especially when Americans always mention "the first ammendment". It always sounded holy to me..those words. But they seem not to be. Or do I mistake laws for ammendsments? @MmeGigs I was moderator in 8 chatrooms/forums. It is hard work to keep control over them. But surely needed. For several reasons. HArdest was to not delete posts you disliked. I hate sensorship about things beeing with in law. But it is hard to think clear when you disliek the subject. That is why you can't make every one moderator.

Alumbrado -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 2:51:14 PM)
quote: What I don't understand is that an individual (ISP or Forum owner) stands above the law. Especially when Americans always mention "the first ammendment". It always sounded holy to me..those words. But they seem not to be. Or do I mistake laws for ammendsments? The difference between the government suppressing speech because of its content, and the judical process rendering a decision that certain actions did not fall within the protections given to free speech, is not that hard to understand. And the ruling from California courts have been known to be overturned for faulty logic on occasion.

Justme696 -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 2:55:39 PM)
quote: is not that hard to understand. not?? Isn't the judges word final? The goverment makes the rules, but the judge translates them to the real world? So his interpretation of the goverments word is final? If there are 2 entities..contradicting eachother..we could say the law doesn't work :P

Alumbrado -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 3:03:21 PM)
Or that you are just trolling for an argument where there is none[:D]

Justme696 -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 3:05:52 PM)
you mean you have no answer and were wrong? what I meant was trias politica (law and goverment are seperated...so the judge word is final..the goverment can't change it with out changing law) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers (is the American system like this?/) no seriously. Some people stated things..and I had other info. I am not american. I just try to understand how the system works. For me..it seems very unclear. If the law says A .. every one can shout B but it will still be A if you like it or not. It counts for every one that lives in that country. Or not?

Alumbrado -> RE: Is the internet protected? (5/17/2008 3:20:54 PM)
I mean that you are playing puerile word games, using sophistry and specious logic. No judge's ruling is final in the American system, it can always be changed by other judges... and that fact does not mean that the law doesn't work, it means that the system can adapt. No ideal is absolute either, given the fundamental concept of conflicting desires...there always needs to be a balancing act or test to determine the limits on free speech, et al. Google 'fire in a crowded theater'. You know, exactly like it is in your country.

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