Breaking my heart....seriously

Breaking my heart....seriously (Full Version)

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Kalista07 -> Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 4:00:53 PM)
Damn.......Seriously, why the hell do i even bother to read the newspaper anymore? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfg3w11_A_E This was originally posted on CNN.com....... Before You attack or criticize her, i can relate... Kali

LotusSong -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 4:21:16 PM)
Gee.. 16 years old. She thought he cared for her.. think maybe he flattered her and told her how "mature she was for her age"? All the straining to get some tears going.. makes me feel this is the work of a jilted wanna-be girlfriend. Now, do you guys know why I feel that some people are way too young for what WE do? A teen will always be a teen- no matter HOW "mature" they think they are. She's had a tough lesson. I hope she didn't get an STD or pregnant.

Level -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 4:25:23 PM)
quote: Orange County authorities charged the 23-year-old man Crystal accused of assaulting her with lewd or lascivious battery. According to court documents, Crystal and the man both said they had an ongoing sexual relationship. The prosecutor, who declined to comment to CNN, concluded that the teen and the 23-year-old had consensual sex, according to the case file. Florida law states that a 15-year-old cannot give consent to sex. And though Crystal was 15 at the time of the alleged forced encounter, the prosecutor wrote that the case would not be prosecuted because Crystal was "a mere 1 month away" from turning 16, when it would be "legal to give consent," according to documents. http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/05/15/rape.online/index.html Sounds like the authorities are splitting hairs.

Kalista07 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 4:28:17 PM)
If i had a dollar for everytime prosecutors wanted to get into symantics bullshit games i'd be filthy rich. What concerns me the most is how the prosecutors maintain the sexual relationship was purely consensual. However, she specifically says that she told him no.................Whether she did or did not, it's still statutory rape. Kali

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 4:53:56 PM)
Not a big fan of statutory rape charges generally for a female of that approximate age. I'm also not a big fan of rape charges without evidence of force - then it's just he said/she said bullshit. Who do we believe? Why? She tried playing grown-up and got burned. It happens. Most of this breaks down to evidence and what a jury would do given said evidence. Realistically, it's probable a jury would not convict the alleged rapist under these circumstances. A jury shouldn't convict on conjecture or the uncorroborated testimony of one person. Saying no is not enough. You have to struggle and fight and be beaten to show the evidence of force. We can't assume that every young lady that walks into a police station or hospital and cries rape is absolutely telling the truth. People do all kinds of fucked up things so this is the way it is. The accused has the right to be proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Where reasonable doubt exists you don't get a conviction. This is basic criminal law stuff. Where's the surprise factor? [8\|]

Kalista07 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 7:24:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro You have to struggle and fight and be beaten to show the evidence of force. [8\|] SugarMyChurro, There's a huge flaw in Your theory....... My personal experience is that i was raped, beaten, and assaulted...i had bruises, strains, etc in places i will not speak of on here. Additionally, i also had bruises and scars around my wrists and ankels where he had bound me. Was that not enough fighting?? How much more proof was need, because according to Your standard it should be obvious that i was raped. Kali

Bethnai -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 7:41:46 PM)
So...........basically, this doesn't have anything to do with the original post, this has to do with you. Therefore, any commentary contrary to your personal experience is going to be unacceptable. I am truly sorry for your experience, however, for someone who does not wish to discuss personal experience you are bleeding all over the place here. If you are serious, you must realize that you are going to initiate up to 6 pages of crap that you will wish wouldn't have taken place and will probably make you feel 20 times worse. If your not serious, you will have generated 6 pages of crap.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 7:46:23 PM)
The evidence has to be looked at as a whole. What are the details? Was it prosecuted or not? FWIW, I am not saying the girl wasn't raped. I am simply saying that maybe proving that fact to other people becomes a complicated affair. A case has to be mounted coherently. It all has to add up neatly. The standard is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Here's a hypothetical for you... A man and a woman go on a date. The date ends with a make-out session that leads to sex. The man is inside the woman when suddenly she says she wants to stop. He decides to finish up anyway, over her objection and repeated protestations. They struggle a little bit, but nothing amounts to meaningful physical evidence. Rape or not? I say it's rape because the woman specifically asked for the man to stop. But I know many men would say that the woman was being ridiculous and unfair in her expectations. I doubt many would convict if the woman admitted that the facts were as stated above. Some would argue that you can't rape a spouse - that there is an implicit agreement to allow a spouse physical access to one for the purposes of sexual relations. It goes on. You want people to be on your side, but there may be dozens of things that confuse the issue. This isn't really about whether rape took place or not, it's really about whether a jury can be persuaded of that fact.

Smith117 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 7:50:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 SugarMyChurro, There's a huge flaw in Your theory....... My personal experience is that i was raped, beaten, and assaulted...i had bruises, strains, etc in places i will not speak of on here. Additionally, i also had bruises and scars around my wrists and ankels where he had bound me. Was that not enough fighting?? How much more proof was need, because according to Your standard it should be obvious that i was raped. Actually, no there isn't. Your experience proves his point. There is no doubt that you were assaulted. However, for every truly harrowing tale like yours I hear, I hear an equal amount of horror stories from the guy's perspective. Stories such as: A couple having a wonderful date, a beautiful time and kissing goodnight, the next morning the guy waking to detectives at his door because she felt bad they had sex and so she cried rape in the police station that morning. Or stories such as the couple in New York who were having sex, and the girl changed her mind, penis still inside her, and since it took him all of 5 seconds to get off her, now he's on trial for rape. And the ever present story such as the ones where no sex actually took place, and the girl decided she wanted to ruin his life for whatever perceived scorn he may or may not have done to her. In this country there is the common phrase "innocent until proven guilty." However, in cases like the ones I mentioned, it doesn't matter if you prove that the girl was a lying, vengeful whore. The man will ALWAYS have the stigma of someone accused of rape for the rest of his life.

Alumbrado -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 7:56:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Not a big fan of statutory rape charges generally for a female of that approximate age. I'm also not a big fan of rape charges without evidence of force - then it's just he said/she said bullshit. Who do we believe? Why? She tried playing grown-up and got burned. It happens. Most of this breaks down to evidence and what a jury would do given said evidence. Realistically, it's probable a jury would not convict the alleged rapist under these circumstances. A jury shouldn't convict on conjecture or the uncorroborated testimony of one person. Saying no is not enough. You have to struggle and fight and be beaten to show the evidence of force. We can't assume that every young lady that walks into a police station or hospital and cries rape is absolutely telling the truth. People do all kinds of fucked up things so this is the way it is. The accused has the right to be proved guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Where reasonable doubt exists you don't get a conviction. This is basic criminal law stuff. Where's the surprise factor? [8\|] Rape involves the element of 'force, actual or constructive'....where there need not be any sign of physical injury. Constructive force is considered to include cases where the act was effected not through physical harm, but through the inability of the victim to freely give consent... Often that is very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.... but not where the victim is too young to legally give consent. As you say, basic stuff... but no surprise.

Kalista07 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 8:03:48 PM)
quote: In this country there is the common phrase "innocent until proven guilty." However, in cases like the ones I mentioned, it doesn't matter if you prove that the girl was a lying, vengeful whore. The man will ALWAYS have the stigma of someone accused of rape for the rest of his life. Honestly, i understand where You both are coming from...... And on some level i even agree. i guess the part that bothers me is when every women who says she has been raped is not just another 'whore who changed her mind'. i know this is just a change with the environment that we are currently in, and i even understand how we got here... However, my question is how do we fix this? Because as it is, i can completly understand why people don't want to go forward and file a police report. If You think some of the men around here are judgemental and rude regarding rape? That's nothing, i've got some police officers i could introduce You to. So, what's the middle ground here? We can't simply not believe every woman who comes forward saying she was raped. And yet, i am not okay with just automatically convicting someone of rape, simply because someone says it's so.. Kali

Smith117 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 8:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 Honestly, i understand where You both are coming from...... And on some level i even agree. i guess the part that bothers me is when every women who says she has been raped is not just another 'whore who changed her mind'. i know this is just a change with the environment that we are currently in, and i even understand how we got here... However, my question is how do we fix this? Because as it is, i can completly understand why people don't want to go forward and file a police report. If You think some of the men around here are judgemental and rude regarding rape? That's nothing, i've got some police officers i could introduce You to. So, what's the middle ground here? We can't simply not believe every woman who comes forward saying she was raped. And yet, i am not okay with just automatically convicting someone of rape, simply because someone says it's so.. All I can say is how I intend to fix it for me. And that's simple. A) I don't plan to ever have sex again. I don't believe I will ever again meet a girl I can trust enough when she says she likes me, if she says she loves me, or if she indicates a desire to have sex with me. And B) If I do, by some miracle, meet a girl I think I can trust, you can rest assured my house will be Big Brother's wet fucking dream so that if I see detectives at my door, I can say "Come on in, boys. Let's go to the video, shall we? And before you ask, there is ZERO alcohol in my house because I don't drink and don't usually associate with those who do, at least not in a sexual capacity."

littlespicyone -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 8:09:55 PM)
I think it's a sad word when a woman who has truly been raped has to go to great lengths to prove it, which is nearly impossible unless she is Mother Theresa. I have read that in Islamic countries, if a woman is raped, she is put to death unless she has 3 men that will testify to being witnesses to the rape ... it isn't all that much different in the US. I think it's a sad thing that's happened for everyone involved. I don't know much about it except for what's on the video and what CNN said, but it would seem that there would have been evidence of her having been drugged as she says she was. It seems to me that a girl who would go to these lengths to make her case would have reported the rape immediately, and so there ought to have been evidence. As I watched the video she made, I sort of felt like she was being insincere, but I don't have any experience with rape vicitms on which to base my idea.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:03:58 PM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXuVB4TeJ7s I'd say more but I don't want to be on mod probation.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:18:03 PM)
Didnt immediately post so I duplicated. sorry

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:25:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 If i had a dollar for everytime prosecutors wanted to get into symantics bullshit games i'd be filthy rich. What concerns me the most is how the prosecutors maintain the sexual relationship was purely consensual. However, she specifically says that she told him no.................Whether she did or did not, it's still statutory rape. Kali The problem I see is people will always minimize the womans negative experiences. . I remember being at a job with the whole Anita Hill /Clarence Thomas thing in 1992. All the men there were calling her a effin whore and a liar. this women was a pretty advanced career women yet she was treated like she would make this up for no reason. Whether unwanted advancements, sexual harrasment, honking horns,cat calls. Women is pray and men are the hunters. they will always dehuminize us and defend other mens agression toward woman. Not all but many. She asked for it, she deserved it, she flirted, wore a short skirt, has a reputation for being easy. So slip her some rohipnol. She a bitch. The true reality is women are never safe.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:38:34 PM)
Its a mans world... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeW_Zd2B2zU

Smith117 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:50:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 The true reality is women are never safe. Neither are men. Trust me, I'd take the "danger" of a cat call or sexual harassment over the potential threat of being branded a rapist anyday.

velvetears -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 9:55:09 PM)
She appeared to me to be faking it. She was scrunching her eyes seeming to try to squeeze tears out of them. The muscles in her face registered to me more like a smile then distress, in fact turn off the sound and you would be hard pressed to know. A rape charge can literally ruin a man's life, as rape can ruin a woman's life as well. Sometimes you have to weigh things and simply decide to take your lumps when you make poor choices and suck it up.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Breaking my heart....seriously (5/15/2008 10:03:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 The true reality is women are never safe. Neither are men. Trust me, I'd take the "danger" of a cat call or sexual harassment over the potential threat of being branded a rapist anyday. You already are not giving validity to this fact. You are physically safer than a woman. Women are violated way more than innocent men are branded rapists. You do not understand the way men enforce their power and let us know there is nothing we can do about it.

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