Painful associations and going back

Painful associations and going back (Full Version)

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Prinsexx -> Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 4:38:57 PM)
>It's funny once I am out of a dynamic it never seems the same again...like once the mindset has gone it's gone and I always think omg how did i let them have power 'over' me like that.... >I know how that goes. I can’t tell you how many times I've asked myself "what DID I see in him?" after a break up. I think it's partly a self-defence thing....so that you don't allow yourself to go back into something with someone who is attached to painful memories..? >good point yeah but really difficult to resist especially when you love the pain ... Have you ever gone back into a relationship despite painful associations? Have you ever gone back into a relationship because of the need to receive/give pain either physically and/or emotionally? Have you ever gone back into a relationship and rekindled the original dynamic because of missing that pain? Do painful memories make you defensive or willing to give in and go on? PS indebted to a conversation with GreedyTop who made me think about this.

TysGalilah -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 4:48:43 PM)
Have you ever gone back into a relationship despite painful associations? Yes Have you ever gone back into a relationship because of the need to receive/give pain either physically and/or emotionally? Yes... it was subconcious and a vanilla relationship but yes on the emotional pain. Do painful memories make you defensive or willing to give in and go on? Yes. It took Tyson an unfair amt of time,energy and patience to nudge his way through my defenses and fear of lies, that I had. My trust was a long time coming because of previous relationship which left me nearly unable to trust anyone including myself.

missturbation -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 4:56:05 PM)
quote: I can’t tell you how many times I've asked myself "what DID I see in him?" after a break up. I think it's partly a self-defence thing....so that you don't allow yourself to go back into something with someone who is attached to painful memories..? I never thought of it that way. Thinking on it though i don't agree for me personally. I see it as a clarity thing, seeing things clearly that in the haze of the relationship i didn't. quote: good point yeah but really difficult to resist especially when you love the pain ... For me this just screams dangerous territory. I love pain but the good kind. I love being whipped, hate stubbing my toe. I love being cut with a knife but hate being cut apart by a failing relationship. quote: Have you ever gone back into a relationship despite painful associations? Very nearly until i realised all the charm was just smoke and mirrors for what really lay underneath. quote: Have you ever gone back into a relationship because of the need to receive/give pain either physically and/or emotionally? No i dont need the bad kind of emotional hurt or physical hurt. quote: Have you ever gone back into a relationship and rekindled the original dynamic because of missing that pain? No way. In my opinion that would just not be healthy. quote: Do painful memories make you defensive or willing to give in and go on? They have made me very defensive and pretty paranoid but i am willing to go on. Not with the person / people who caused those painful memories though. I actually find your post a little disturbing prinsexx hun. Sounds to me like you are craving abusive relationships. I may be wrong and if i am i apologise. Surely though someone who has hurt you deeply physically or mentally should not be given a second chance. And before anyone says it i know some people do give second chances in some circumstances.

batshalom -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 5:07:51 PM)
Yeah, I've done that. Oddly enough, it was to a vanilla man I thought I needed / wanted / loved more than I could ever need / want / love any other man ever. What an idiot I was.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 5:14:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation I actually find your post a little disturbing prinsexx hun. Sounds to me like you are craving abusive relationships. I may be wrong and if i am i apologise. Surely though someone who has hurt you deeply physically or mentally should not be given a second chance. And before anyone says it i know some people do give second chances in some circumstances. No need to apologise. I actually have no intention of going back. Actually I see it as going BACKWARDS nuch more clearly than I ever have before. I have allowed myself the luxury of a few flashbacks. Yes; the pain isolated was good, if it is possible to isolate the pain from the context of the person delivering it. I think it is, in terms of sensation. But the emotional pain: well maybe, just maybe I have kicked a bad habit. I can look back and say at least he was willing to deliver that pain, without blane and without remorse. And I do admit to having been in numerous abusive relationships and always blamed the other and never truly been able to figure my role in the equation.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 5:19:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: batshalom Yeah, I've done that. Oddly enough, it was to a vanilla man I thought I needed / wanted / loved more than I could ever need / want / love any other man ever. What an idiot I was. I understand that though. I used to feel need like that so bad that the need blotted out conscious consent. How on earth I managed to carry on with family and career under such abusive situations I don't fully understand. I compartmentalised the abuse from the rest of my life mush like a junkie denying they are using, or an alcoholic hiding bottles. I don't want to do myself the diservice of thnking I was an idiot back then.....emotionally immature and stuck maybe but somehow the 'clever me' just carried on. It was like a drug that allowed me to present a clever me to the world.

LadyHibiscus -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 5:40:51 PM)
Oh yes....actually I had quite a wallow, way back when the disaster was happening. Not that I was enjoying reliving the abusive relationship, it was me being guilted out for being such a moron, for not seeing the patterns right in front of my face, for pretty much steering my own train wreck. Now I am madly reexamining every move I make trying to be sure I don't do it AGAIN. You sound much better, Prinnie! But if you DO go back, [>:] you will be HEARING from ME!

CreativeDominant -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 6:02:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx >It's funny once I am out of a dynamic it never seems the same again...like once the mindset has gone it's gone and I always think omg how did i let them have power 'over' me like that.... >I know how that goes. I can’t tell you how many times I've asked myself "what DID I see in him?" after a break up. I think it's partly a self-defence thing....so that you don't allow yourself to go back into something with someone who is attached to painful memories..? >good point yeah but really difficult to resist especially when you love the pain ... Have you ever gone back into a relationship despite painful associations? Since none of the guys have taken a stab at this, I will. Yes, I have...I went back to my fiance even after she told me she was pregnant with another man's child. quote: Have you ever gone back into a relationship because of the need to receive/give pain either physically and/or emotionally? No. Despite my first answer, I am not an emotional masochist and I have a feeling...though I cannot answer definitively since I am not there...that I would be the same kind of masochist as I am a sadist; I love sadism and I love being with a masochist. When I am with one who is into me, then I need that sadism/masochism as part of the dynamic and the relationship but never to the extent that I needed to be causing actual, spiritual, down-to-your-toes-and-all-through-your-heart-and-soul pain nor receiving it to feel alive. quote: Have you ever gone back into a relationship and rekindled the original dynamic because of missing that pain? No. Again, as much as I enjoy the S/M part of my dynamics now, the dynamic itself and the relationship itself...apart from the S/M...are what count. I am lucky enough to know a couple of submissive friends who, if I need that badly to indulge my sadistic leanings, are perfectly willing. I won't let that need overwhelm my brain nor my body. quote: Do painful memories make you defensive or willing to give in and go on? PS indebted to a conversation with GreedyTop who made me think about this. They have made me cautious. They have made me be someone who takes his time in getting to know someone, especially in light of the consideration that I want a long-term partner. I don't want to carry baggage into a relationship but I am well-aware that what has happened, has happened. After my last D/s relationship ended, I took a break...re-examined myself and what I want; took a look at the common denominator in the bad relationships I had been in...ME...and looked at what I had done that needed changing and at what I had done that I would do no differently. I also spoke with the kink-friendly counselor who has been my therapist off and on since my marriage broke up. I've made some changes and I am happy with me but I try not to stay stagnant but rather, evolve. I have also learned what I will accept and what I will not and I make that clear up front. One thing I will not accept is a relationship in which the pain felt...especially of the bad kind...is sought by my partner, either for herself or for me. Especially me.

Owner4SexSlave -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 6:37:29 PM)
I think it's a good thing to come to self understanding if you are drawn to pain, be it emotional/mental or physical pain. Physical pain is easier to process, understand and deal with compared to mental pain. Now, the experience of pain and the release from it very much can make you feel alive. The down side to what extent or point is it a bad thing for you. What are your limits? Is the relationship really worth it. Is it too much pain, or too much of the wrong kind of emotional/mental or physical pain. What else is the relationship about besides ones attraction to the pain? Do you also seek love, wamth and affection as well as emotional or physical pain? Are those needs also being met? Yes, there comes a time of self realization, that you are attracted to and enjoy emotional and physical pain, however other things are missing. Basically, you are only getting part of what you need. It's ok to admit to yourself, hey I enjoy mental or emotional pain just as much as you might enjoy physical pain. It's simply part of who you are as a person. Be honest with yourself. Some people attempt to deny they have a thing for emotional/mental pain. That emotional pain automatically equates to real/true abuse, yet consensual physical pain is acceptable. Just like physical pain, it's best to understand and know what your limits are. The person dishing out emotional/mental pain should be able to understand the limits as well. OK, you at some point in time come to the realization, you have a thing for pain regardless of the type it is. You also realize, that either or Your limits to cope with it are being exceeded, you can not process and cope with it anymore mentally/physically. Your other needs, wants, desires are not being fillfulled to balance things out. Many times when something else is missing, it lowers you ability to cope or deal with pain. However, if it is there, you somehow have this amazing ability to endure large doses of physical or emotional pain. When your ability to cope with pain is constantly exceeded, you are forced to look at breaking free of the relationship itself. You will mentally prepare yourself however it's going to take to do this, too. Such as What Did I ever see in them. You will become blind to any of the good Qualities you first saw in them. You will do whatever it takes to villianfy the other person in your mind, so that you yourself will not be tempted to get back into a relationship with them ever again. If you need to believe that the other person was "Pure fucking Evil", this is what you will do to convince yourself inorder to break free. If you need to beat yourself or punish yourself for your decision to become involved with them in the first place, you will ride your own ass into the ground, if it will keep you from getting involved with them ever again. OK, not everybody functions this way. I am using the word "you" as a generalization to mean anybody who actually functions in the manner I have described. What I have Expressed is a generalization and not a universal truth for everybody in the whole wide world. I just wanted to add a little clarification to the meaning behind what I am trying to express in this post.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:10:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Oh yes....actually I had quite a wallow, way back when the disaster was happening. Not that I was enjoying reliving the abusive relationship, it was me being guilted out for being such a moron, for not seeing the patterns right in front of my face, for pretty much steering my own train wreck. Now I am madly reexamining every move I make trying to be sure I don't do it AGAIN. You sound much better, Prinnie! But if you DO go back, [>:] you will be HEARING from ME! I didn't intend this to be yet another personal post (as if!). It was more of an objective understanding if you like about where I am at. Good words you use and an apt description of what I am also doing: examining each step of the way to make sure I don't tread the same fault lines all over again. Paradoxically the more the temptation arises the more I am able to resist. It is about missing the sensations though.........

TysGalilah -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:22:19 PM)
physical pain hurts less than emotional pain (consentual)physical pain makes me feel strong enough to allow my (non-consentual)emotional pain to come to the surface and be felt.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:22:24 PM)
I forced myself to continue relationships with people I knew inside myself should be over- I couldn't face "failure" I couldn't stop trying I suck at ending relationships, all those reasons. But I've never ended it and then returned. I guess for me it's so hard to end it, that once it's done, it's really just well past dead and done. And yes I have the experience of "Wow I can't believe that's what I went into" But it was right for me at the time, and now I have what's right for me now. I think it's only a problem if you KEEP getting into the same situations expecting different results.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:23:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I have also learned what I will accept and what I will not and I make that clear up front. One thing I will not accept is a relationship in which the pain felt...especially of the bad kind...is sought by my partner, either for herself or for me. Especially me. Thank you for being the first man to have ago at this. And a sadist as well! In what you say above: therein lies the kernel of your points for me at least. Now this is NOT a blame of my ex nor is it a denial of my role but I have recognised this. He could not love. He said quite clearly near the beginning that he 'didn't do love'. So I was the one who allowed him to do, ather allowed him to use me, for loveless bdsm. That was where the irreconsilable realities were. I could accept that I loved gim but that he did not love me IF there had been the possibility that love could have grown within him but it could not.. I neede pain within a loving relationship, I needed pain as an expresion of love if you will. So I kept going back. It afforded him an opportunity not only to inflict pain but to prove that masochists who expected nothing else existed in the world to service his needs. Whew....insomnia but thank you for helping me get that one out into the open.

TysGalilah -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:32:44 PM)
Thanks for the perspective LA I guess technically I didn't physically leave(end it ~ walk away) and go back either. Emotionally* I did tho' ....trusted, betrayal, and yet forgave and emotionally went back way too many times.* So, Prin, my "yes" I guess came from my feeling that I left.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:36:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave What else is the relationship about besides ones attraction to the pain? Do you also seek love, wamth and affection as well as emotional or physical pain? Are those needs also being met? Yes I just wrote about this when replying to CreativeDominant. There was a realisation VERY EARLY on that I needed love and he couldn't give it. But I buried that realisation. I went on hoping to change him, actually, embarassing a confession as it is for a submissive to make here, I went on trying to CHANGE him. Is there such a term as DEEP TOPPING? well there is now....... quote: Your other needs, wants, desires are not being fillfulled to balance things out. Many times when something else is missing, it lowers you ability to cope or deal with pain. However, if it is there, you somehow have this amazing ability to endure large doses of physical or emotional pain. When your ability to cope with pain is constantly exceeded, you are forced to look at breaking free of the relationship itself. You nailed it. As time went by my tolerance for physical pain decreased until I was signalling to stop even before he would touch me because the context of love was so missing and I was focused on its absence. And then of course I was interpreting the physical pain as too much, way way too much and that justified me quitting. It was very very diffivult for me to finally say: I wanted you to love me. There is a balance between pain and love for me but not until I could distinguish the two or rather not until the tiime when I was prepared to ask for both. All also meant to be offered as a generalisation by the way not just as personal anecdote.

KCherry -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:40:57 PM)
The only time I have gone back into a relationship like that wasn't the pain it was the fear of being alone.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:41:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TysGalilah physical pain hurts less than emotional pain (consentual)physical pain makes me feel strong enough to allow my (non-consentual)emotional pain to come to the surface and be felt. Wow now that's something else.......and I would also have to agree.....my emotional pain feels non-consensul it's like 'and who gave YOU the right to hurt me like this!'.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:45:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross But I've never ended it and then returned. I guess for me it's so hard to end it, that once it's done, it's really just well past dead and done. I'd like to be able to keep face and say I've never returned....however that's not true. My pattern has been, in the past at least, to 'pretend' to end it and then return. Now I wonder, now i ask myself, why would I do that? There comes a point though when the ending of it feels SO bad that there isn't anyway I could go back, knowing all along there HAD to be and end but that I couldn't go through the process again.

Prinsexx -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:53:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KCherry The only time I have gone back into a relationship like that wasn't the pain it was the fear of being alone. I used to 'feel' lonely. But that was just a feeling of being without someone as opposed to being on-my-own-with-myself. Two sorts of freedom: freedpm FROM and freedomTO It went in stages for me. First the freedom from him, which yes, was experienced as his absence...... and then a freedom to well to do anything I want really......run, sing, shout, cry, look for someone else, reflect, flashback, flash forward, write,,,,and so on. Technically being on my own isn't lonely at all at the moment because it feels as if I am far more emotionally connected to everyone.

TysGalilah -> RE: Painful associations and going back (5/13/2008 7:53:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: TysGalilah physical pain hurts less than emotional pain (consentual)physical pain makes me feel strong enough to allow my (non-consentual)emotional pain to come to the surface and be felt. Wow now that's something else.......and I would also have to agree.....my emotional pain feels non-consensul it's like 'and who gave YOU the right to hurt me like this!'. {my emotional pain feels non-consensul it's like 'and who gave YOU the right to hurt me like this!'.} yep. It's why I won't take degradation. Lash me...cut me..prick me..slap me..command me to do humiliating things that are for YOUR pleasure. Yes But, degrade my person, lash at my spirit or try to break my emotional strength? nope..too many years bringing myself up out of that hole, and I'm not revisiting it for anyone. emotional pain is/feels non-consentual to me.

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