RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (Full Version)

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Prinsexx -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 1:54:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)


Wow that's a powerful statement. Difficult to top that one. xx




Prinsexx -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 1:56:49 PM)

I'm going to forward this to my sister whose partner is a man living as a women.
She/she have just come back from a conference in Berlin where they are both active in the movement.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Have good times in Italy please.
Prin xx





MladyHathor -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 2:04:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



I agree, however, My point was rhetorical not anatomical...
 
and your point is extremely powerful.






GoddessTeaze -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 2:04:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

I'm going to forward this to my sister whose partner is a man living as a women.
She/she have just come back from a conference in Berlin where they are both active in the movement.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Have good times in Italy please.
Prin xx


Thank You kindly Prin,
I wish you enough,

Warm Hugglz

GoddezzT`





faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 3:14:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



i always wonder how i was reacting to the knife when that dr playing god took away my womanhood.  obviously i wouldnt know what was going on...but i sure as hell bet that i was yelling and screaming and crying.





stella41b -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 6:38:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way. I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



I don't want to go into my past here but trust me, it's been long and difficult. More so not just by me fighting myself and who I was inside just to be accepted and to fit in with others but also due to the waiting, doubts and difficulties doctors have had when confronting my issues. I am a mosaic type of transgendered female.. I was born transgendered (had I have been born male, trust me, I would be male right now, it would have saved me a lot of pain, heartache and suffering) and for some time it was believed that I could live in either gender but in either case I would need treatment.. but as I developed later it came out that my actual gender is female, or more specifically predominantly female. I don't have a karotype specific to one gender (but to both), and though my primary physical characteristics are male I have some secondary female physical characteristics, bone structure, skin, pattern of hair growth.. I am aging much in the same way as a female, even before I went onto hormones my body was producing insufficient amounts of testosterone and naturally producing amounts of oestrogen and progestoron. This is how I was born, it's not a choice, nor a preference, it could not be prevented and was even very hard to diagnose.

Trust me, there's a difference between thinking and knowing. I know. I have done the man thing over a number of years.

You see, no amount of hormones and surgery is ever going to make me female, it won't make me any more female than I am now. It's a lot of butchery, slicing, cutting, a very painful operation which comes with the 'emotional fallout' and trauma' but what will it give me? Just a hole which you can stick a penis or dildo into. It's not going to give me a womb nor the ability to have children, nor even the ability to menstruate and have a period. Furthermore it's not even guaranteed that I will ever be able to feel or experience the same sensations and feelings a natural born woman feels during sexual intercourse, there's no guarantee I will be able to achieve an orgasm, nor experience that union of emotional, psychological and physical sensations, feelings, emotions that almost every natural born woman knows and many take for granted. I experience the same needs, cravings, desires, I have the same dreams, but in some cases I've learned to let go, and in others I'm still waiting, patiently, knowing I still have some way to go.

Yes it's been difficult, but there's no way round it, I'm doing all I can, I tried the explanations and such, but you know this just makes it an even bigger issue than it already is, so I've just signalled the issue with a label and left it at that. I don't have time to play the victim, it doesn't change who I am as a person, and I'm getting on with life the best I can. I'm happier and feeling much better now than ever. I am integrated in society, there's people in my life who accept me, I have my theatre and charity work, I'll leave it for other people to put that part of me into context and work it out for themselves. I keep the TG label for a reason, an open admission of the issues, it's part of me, it's how I was born, how I live, and how I will die.

I ahve friends with children, small children.. a 3 year old girl who worked it out and understood within minutes, accepted it. None of the kids playing outside my block have an issue over it. But then again they're not adults.

In the UK the Gender Recognition Act 2004 doesn't make a female out of a transgendered female, it recognizes the fact that a transgendered female IS female on the basis of a clear, long term medical evidence of gender dysphoria based on the intention of someone to live in their appropriate gender permanently - which is not so much an intention but a necessity. The Act contains the phrase acquired gender because it enables someone to change their birth certificate to the correct gender only 6 years after surgery, but it also allows for trasngendered people to be legally recognized as being of their acquired gender prior to surgery. The intention is to provide legal protection for the transgendered people who are going through various stages of their gender reassignment.

This differs from legislation both in the United States and Canada which require the completion of a gender reassignment program together with surgery, which leaves those without surgery trapped in their birth gender and open to discrimination and prejudice from others. It's all well and good for those who are seeking surgery, but what about those who either don't want surgery or cannot have it for some reason?

It's worth not getting confused by the LGBT label.. this is about gender, not about sexual orientation. Is it really too much to expect for people to look beyond the superficial issues and recognize these people for who the medical profession have proven them to be?




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 6:50:10 PM)

quote:

I was born transgendered...

None of the kids playing outside my block have an issue over it.


you were not born transgendered.  you were born female.  you are either a man or a woman but not born transgendered.  just as this trans i see in their profile "i am a she-male"  no your not.  no such thing.  its a porno term from the 50s!

the kids here always say things like "this boy loves you...theres that boy-girl" why? because they assume anyone in my house is this way due to the fact that there is a 6'4 200lb 50+ yr old trans living here (who cant pass and has stopped transition).  so i get the kid issues even though im not what they think!  one day i will chase them and roar at them with my hands attempting to touch them.  these are only like 8-12 yr old kids.





stella41b -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 6:55:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

I was born transgendered...

None of the kids playing outside my block have an issue over it.


you were not born transgendered. you were born female. you are either a man or a woman but not born transgendered. just as this trans i see in their profile "i am a she-male" no your not. no such thing. its a porno term from the 50s!

the kids here always say things like "this boy loves you...theres that boy-girl" why? because they assume anyone in my house is this way due to the fact that there is a 6'4 200lb 50+ yr old trans living here (who cant pass and has stopped transition). so i get the kid issues even though im not what they think! one day i will chase them and roar at them with my hands attempting to touch them. these are only like 8-12 yr old kids.




Agreed.. the TG came with it. It's who you are inside, everything else is irrelevant which is why I feel the GRA in the UK should be the standard as opposed to anything else.




DarkVictory -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 7:06:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



i always wonder how i was reacting to the knife when that dr playing god took away my womanhood.  obviously i wouldnt know what was going on...but i sure as hell bet that i was yelling and screaming and crying.




So, they didn't use any anesthetic where you lived?  I'm assuming flint knives and gourd rattles were de-rigeur?




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 7:09:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



i always wonder how i was reacting to the knife when that dr playing god took away my womanhood.  obviously i wouldnt know what was going on...but i sure as hell bet that i was yelling and screaming and crying.




So, they didn't use any anesthetic where you lived?  I'm assuming flint knives and gourd rattles were de-rigeur?



we're talking 1970..who knows.  in 1973 when i was in sweden they opened my thighs up to attempt to stop a clot from spreading...while i was awake...no pain killers no freezing no anasthetic.  my parents left sweden for canada at that time.




DarkVictory -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 7:13:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



i always wonder how i was reacting to the knife when that dr playing god took away my womanhood.  obviously i wouldnt know what was going on...but i sure as hell bet that i was yelling and screaming and crying.




So, they didn't use any anesthetic where you lived?  I'm assuming flint knives and gourd rattles were de-rigeur?



we're talking 1970..who knows.  in 1973 when i was in sweden they opened my thighs up to attempt to stop a clot from spreading...while i was awake...no pain killers no freezing no anasthetic.  my parents left sweden for canada at that time.



Oh well, Sweden and Canada.... that explains everything!




faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 7:15:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

quote:

Is there any greater birth defect a woman can suffer than to be born with a dick?


Yes, someone born with the inability to let others simply--be.


actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)



i always wonder how i was reacting to the knife when that dr playing god took away my womanhood.  obviously i wouldnt know what was going on...but i sure as hell bet that i was yelling and screaming and crying.




So, they didn't use any anesthetic where you lived?  I'm assuming flint knives and gourd rattles were de-rigeur?



we're talking 1970..who knows.  in 1973 when i was in sweden they opened my thighs up to attempt to stop a clot from spreading...while i was awake...no pain killers no freezing no anasthetic.  my parents left sweden for canada at that time.



Oh well, Sweden and Canada.... that explains everything!



and in usa that would have cost us alot of $$$$ where as here and sweden its free! there are always foul ups by dr's in every country.  usa is no stranger to this either!





ModeratorEleven -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 9:33:24 PM)

Folks, please trim your quotes.

XI





GoddessTeaze -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 11:02:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

actually, I think people aren't BORN that way, they are MADE that way.  I've never seen an infant get all pissed off because of the gender/sexuality of the person holding or caring for them :)


It's too easy to judge, to say that "they r made this way "

I believe they are born this way, and it's the same
with gay people.

Iether you is or ya aint.

Have a good one Yya Aall!

GoddezzT`





DomAviator -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/11/2008 11:30:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl


we're talking 1970..who knows.  in 1973 when i was in sweden they opened my thighs up to attempt to stop a clot from spreading...while i was awake...no pain killers no freezing no anasthetic.  my parents left sweden for canada at that time.
...
...
and in usa that would have cost us alot of $$$$ where as here and sweden its free! there are always foul ups by dr's in every country.  usa is no stranger to this either!




Call me nuts but I would rather pay the money for a standard of health care that includes anesthesia than to undergo unanesthesized vivisection for free... A word of warning to all of us when looking at national health care planes LOL.




LadyEllen -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/12/2008 12:50:00 AM)

Nice one DA. Its not even 10am CET and youve managed to insult Europeans and "them thar damned trannies" too. And all in two lines.

What do you for an encore?

And just to oblige you, "youre nuts"

E




DomAviator -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/12/2008 1:08:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Nice one DA. Its not even 10am CET and youve managed to insult Europeans and "them thar damned trannies" too. And all in two lines.

What do you for an encore?

And just to oblige you, "youre nuts"

E


Canadians are European? Who said anything negative of transexuals? Frankly, I find it appaling that a state sponsored health care system would perform a surgical procedure without anesthesthia, sedation, or analgesia on anyone - regardless of gender. That's something I would expect in Auschwitz or Unit 731 rather than a modern medical facility and I feel terrible that s/he has to endure such barbarism! I think you may be a bit hypersensitive about me... Perhaps you've got a crush on me or something? I couldnt blame you if you did, I mean it would be illustrative of good taste... [:D]




LadyEllen -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/12/2008 1:20:42 AM)

There's a difference between wanting to crush someone and having a crush on them DA...... that you fail to realise the insulting nature of your post is I'm afraid, fairly typical form.

I am not a doctor. You, from what we've learned about you, are not a doctor. Neither of us can therefore comment on the ins and outs of whether it is or is not appropriate to perform some procedures without anaesthetic - only a qualified physician might be able to judge such a situation. What I am very sure of though, is that Sweden has excellent doctors and hospitals and there must have been a good reason for the procedure described to have occurred in the way detailed. Who knows? Could have been a time issue, could have been an issue surrounding the use of anaesthesia on someone with a dodgy heart, a combination of these factors or other issues.





DomAviator -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/12/2008 1:42:17 AM)

Or equally possible, the doctor was exercising brutality akin to that of the police which is the original topic of the thread. Perhaps a rather nasty non gender friendly doctor decided to brutalize the intersex patient by denying anesthesia, sedation, or analgesia. OR perhaps the state funded health care system doesnt worry about "extras" like anesthesia. This I know, here in the United States under my privately funded medical care, my dentist wont even give me the shot of novacaine until she has numbed the gums with the topical spray so I dont even feel the needle going in.... I admit I am not a doctor, in fact I thank God I am not one there isnt enough money in it! However, I know that in the USA if a practicioner was carving up my child or loved one without anesthesia by the time the jury was done he would be working at Walgreens to pay off his punitive damages judgement and he would be lucky to get a job cleaning cages in a pet shop much less practicing medicine.

I still fail to see how you found my comment to be negative of the transgendered, and how you can defend unanesthesized mutilation. However, from your previous posts I can confidently say - if an American military surgeon so much as lanced a boil on a terrorists ass without proper anesthesia you would be crying bloody murder and slamming American brutality. Yet my horror at the idea that a child was forced to undergo unanesthesized surgery makes me a monster? I wonder if the doctor would have done the same to a non-intersexed child?




LadyEllen -> RE: Christina Sforza and Mariah Lopez are transgender women who allege they were abused by NYC Polic (5/12/2008 2:12:27 AM)

The procedure Faery described was to stop a blood clot - a blood clot is a potentially lethal matter. Faery has also disclosed here that she has heart problems. I can only imagine that the decision to proceed without anaesthesia was made having taken those two factors into account, since speed was of the essence and giving anaesthesia to someone with heart problems can be just as fatal as a blood clot.

I am certain that medical malpractice, had there been any in this case, would be dealt with in Sweden in a manner akin to the way it is dealt with anywhere else in Europe. The doctor and incident would be investigated, and if malpractice were discovered then action would have been taken. Of course, had Faery died as a result of delayed treatment for the clot, then the same process for possible malpractice might well have ensued. If Faery were my child, I'd sooner have her alive and well and a little bitter, than dead.

Sweden for what its worth, is one of the more progressive countries of Europe, so I would question whether any doctor would be particularly bothered by Faery's condition aside from a wish to provide the best possible prognosis for her, given the information available at the time. And I'm afraid that just because a health service is financed by the taxpayer, it doesnt mean its rubbish. I would happily entrust my life and the lives of my children to the Swedish health service, were the occasion to arise.

Now, you need clues? Here's one - you mentioned vivisection; what types of lifeform is vivisection performed on in normal circumstances?

E




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