RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies

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Level -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 4:07:47 AM)
That's where the mental issue would come in. Someone "off balance" might not be able to see how it would affect others. The entire story is terribly tragic.

Alumbrado -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 5:08:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You may think so, but how do you explain that in countries where prostitution is either legal or out in the open, forced sexual slavery and trafficking is prevalent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Czech_Republic "Prostitutes in the Czech Republic work in a legal gray area, neither explicitly legal nor illegal, which makes it tough for the state to control disease, the sex-slave trade and underage prostitution" It's not a valid comparison, since the only way it would do what I proposed is if it was regulated, and monitored. Also I'm no expert on the Czech Republic, but I believed it's an economicly depressed area(could be wrong), whereas my proposal was US centric. I'm sure different countries will have different problems in this regard, as economic factors vary, culture varies, government corruption varies, etc... I still think it makes sense in the US under a regulated, and monitored system. You would be incorrect in several of your assumptions, but don't let that dissuade you from holding an opinion based on them.

Termyn8or -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 8:01:35 AM)
I agree with FatD, but am not aligned. A prostitute is basically taking money to allow someone to rape her. If she does not have the desire to have sex, it is rape. The money makes it alright, whether it is 10, 20, 50 or 100,000 (choose currency). But as far as it being illegal, no. Stay the fuck out of it. Like drug dealers they do not steal, they provide something for a price. Drug dealers and prostitutes both prey on people's desires. But the government always makes it worse. T

NeedToUseYou -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:07:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You may think so, but how do you explain that in countries where prostitution is either legal or out in the open, forced sexual slavery and trafficking is prevalent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Czech_Republic "Prostitutes in the Czech Republic work in a legal gray area, neither explicitly legal nor illegal, which makes it tough for the state to control disease, the sex-slave trade and underage prostitution" It's not a valid comparison, since the only way it would do what I proposed is if it was regulated, and monitored. Also I'm no expert on the Czech Republic, but I believed it's an economicly depressed area(could be wrong), whereas my proposal was US centric. I'm sure different countries will have different problems in this regard, as economic factors vary, culture varies, government corruption varies, etc... I still think it makes sense in the US under a regulated, and monitored system. You would be incorrect in several of your assumptions, but don't let that dissuade you from holding an opinion based on them. It's not an assumption that the czech republic is not defined legally. I got that quote above from the article you gave me, it says they are attempting to better regulate it but it hasn't happen yet. Hey, if you give some proof, that legalized prostitution in a relatively well off country, leads to more underage prostitution, disease, and sex slavery, then I'll change my opinion, but the link you provided, is about a totally different situation. The contents of the article itself states as much.

Floggings4You -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:12:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I agree with FatD, but am not aligned. A prostitute is basically taking money to allow someone to rape her. If she does not have the desire to have sex, it is rape. But, if a prostitute (your use of the female pronoun is telling) has freely chosen to have sex with someone (who has agreed to pay her) how is it 'rape'? Antics with semantics. I can't see sex-for-money as 'rape'. Rape is nonconsensual, and at the level at which these prostitutes were playing, they chose their profession.

Shawn1066 -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:13:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy I am tired of hearing about prostitution as a victimless crime! This "pretty woman" myth and nonsense might hold sway in the fantasy world of BDSM where middle class pretend slavery runs rampant but the fact is prostitution is a vile and horrid industry enslaving millions all over the world for the hedonistic pleasure of people who could care less that it props up the rape and ruin of UM's in sex slave operations as well as destroying the souls of men and women who partake. And if anyone thinks the so called "high end" prostitution does not contribute to a single digit year old UM being used and abused for sexual purposes, you are beyond naive. The world is a better place because the "DC Madame" decided to leave it. May there be mercy for her soul. I agree with this. DV's Fox

Floggings4You -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:13:44 AM)
I wish I had the time to explain all the problems with this post. Truly, they are legion. I don't, alas... quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy I am tired of hearing about prostitution as a victimless crime! This "pretty woman" myth and nonsense might hold sway in the fantasy world of BDSM where middle class pretend slavery runs rampant but the fact is prostitution is a vile and horrid industry enslaving millions all over the world for the hedonistic pleasure of people who could care less that it props up the rape and ruin of UM's in sex slave operations as well as destroying the souls of men and women who partake. And if anyone thinks the so called "high end" prostitution does not contribute to a single digit year old UM being used and abused for sexual purposes, you are beyond naive. The world is a better place because the "DC Madame" decided to leave it. May there be mercy for her soul.

sirsholly -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:16:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I agree with FatD, but am not aligned. A prostitute is basically taking money to allow someone to rape her. If she does not have the desire to have sex, it is rape. You are sounding as if a female who does not desire sex, although consents to it, is a victim of rape.

SteelofUtah -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 11:24:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy I am tired of hearing about prostitution as a victimless crime! This "pretty woman" myth and nonsense might hold sway in the fantasy world of BDSM where middle class pretend slavery runs rampant but the fact is prostitution is a vile and horrid industry enslaving millions all over the world for the hedonistic pleasure of people who could care less that it props up the rape and ruin of UM's in sex slave operations as well as destroying the souls of men and women who partake. And if anyone thinks the so called "high end" prostitution does not contribute to a single digit year old UM being used and abused for sexual purposes, you are beyond naive. The world is a better place because the "DC Madame" decided to leave it. May there be mercy for her soul. Folks I was gunna leave it alone, I really was then I just THOUGHT about how retarded this was. I'm not going to go off but I have to say Pot-Kettle-Black Any Questions? Look in your own back yard before you get all high and mighty. Truth be Told there is argumant that YOU are worse than the Prostitute because at least Straight sex is an accepted action. I am sure there will be more people wanting to see you hung for your desire to live as a dominant than for a women who sells her sex for profit. Grass is Green Period the side rarely matters. Steel

FatDomDaddy -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 12:53:11 PM)
What????

Owner59 -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 1:12:07 PM)
<sees another point fly right over FDD`s head>

SteelofUtah -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 1:43:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy What???? EXACTLY!!!!!!!!

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 3:46:36 PM)
FatDomDaddy is correct in his assertion that human trafficking does occur in countries with legalized prostitution. Here's one article on human trafficking in the Netherlands, which is famous for it's red light district: http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Netherlands-2.htm I found that by googling Amsterdam and human trafficking. I got 3,990,000 results. So there is plenty of information on the web about it, and that's just one country. Legalization of prostitution would not get rid of this problem, because the pimps running these operations would still need a steady supply of prostitutes. I doubt that there are legions of women looking to get into this profession, legal or not. So where do they get these women? They coerce, blackmail, and flat out lie to women to get them into their business. Say what you want about the poor D.C. madame. She was a pimp, plain and simple. Pimps are the lowest forms of human garbage. They are parasites, and I won't lose a wink of sleep over this woman's death.

meatcleaver -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 4:00:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou FatDomDaddy is correct in his assertion that human trafficking does occur in countries with legalized prostitution. Here's one article on human trafficking in the Netherlands, which is famous for it's red light district: http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Netherlands-2.htm I found that by googling Amsterdam and human trafficking. I got 3,990,000 results. So there is plenty of information on the web about it, and that's just one country. Legalization of prostitution would not get rid of this problem, because the pimps running these operations would still need a steady supply of prostitutes. I doubt that there are legions of women looking to get into this profession, legal or not. So where do they get these women? They coerce, blackmail, and flat out lie to women to get them into their business. Say what you want about the poor D.C. madame. She was a pimp, plain and simple. Pimps are the lowest forms of human garbage. They are parasites, and I won't lose a wink of sleep over this woman's death. Since the coming down of the Iron curtain, human sex trafficking has been a problem all over western Europe and Holland having legal prostitution has nothing to do with it. The real problem is there is still too much poverty in eastern Europe and too many false beliefs there that western Europe is the answer to their economic prayers. It isn't. Most Dutch prostitutes are in a union which fights for the rights and improved conditions for prostitutes. The problem is that trafficked women pass under the radar but this is true in countries where prostitution is illegal. Some evenings several off duty prostitutes from the local brothels drop into the bar I frequent and they seem pretty much in control to me. Actually of you didn't live locally, you wouldn't know they were prostitutes, they just seem like ordinary middleclass women out for a night on the town.

Alumbrado -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 4:08:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado You may think so, but how do you explain that in countries where prostitution is either legal or out in the open, forced sexual slavery and trafficking is prevalent? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_Czech_Republic "Prostitutes in the Czech Republic work in a legal gray area, neither explicitly legal nor illegal, which makes it tough for the state to control disease, the sex-slave trade and underage prostitution" It's not a valid comparison, since the only way it would do what I proposed is if it was regulated, and monitored. Also I'm no expert on the Czech Republic, but I believed it's an economicly depressed area(could be wrong), whereas my proposal was US centric. I'm sure different countries will have different problems in this regard, as economic factors vary, culture varies, government corruption varies, etc... I still think it makes sense in the US under a regulated, and monitored system. You would be incorrect in several of your assumptions, but don't let that dissuade you from holding an opinion based on them. It's not an assumption that the czech republic is not defined legally. I got that quote above from the article you gave me, it says they are attempting to better regulate it but it hasn't happen yet. Hey, if you give some proof, that legalized prostitution in a relatively well off country, leads to more underage prostitution, disease, and sex slavery, then I'll change my opinion, but the link you provided, is about a totally different situation. The contents of the article itself states as much. Even after your moving of the goalposts, you are still making false assumptions about the Czech Republic being underdeveloped (their economy has skyrocketed since the fall of the Soviet Bloc, in no small part due to tourists seeking sex ), about prostitution's de facto status there (the government legalized it, and the 'grey area' of pending legislation deals with how to implement regulations permitting it to occur), and about an imaginary difference between Americans and other peoples. Read up on forced trafficking of women ( I've posted exhaustive links in threads on that topic), and show me anything that backs up the assertion that it goes away when prostitution is not prosecuted by the law... you simply won't find it. Everything else is just debate tricks, which I find pretty distasteful since the real world consequence is women and children being raped.

meatcleaver -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/2/2008 4:14:43 PM)
Prostitution isn't the issue, legal or otherwise isn't the issue. Kidnapping and enslavement is the issue and every country has heavy sentencing for those crimes. Sweden made it illegal for men to pay for sex. The prostitutes up sticks and went to Finland, Norway and Denmark where they could earn so making prostitution illegal might make some puritans feel better but it doesn't make any difference in reality.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/3/2008 2:26:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 My 1st thought,she was offed to keep her quiet. Well, here's the Alex Jones version of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSl_bLi3EjM [;)] I think it's interesting that he constantly asks people if they will commit suicide. Maybe Alex Jones is paranoid enough to make Philip K. Dick seem like the most sane man to ever have lived, but then again it might be an interesting question to ask people. People that get into trouble do seem to drop like flies from suicide. I kept thinking, what does a woman worth millions have to gain from dropping dead? Why doesn't she skip out of the U.S.? It's not like the case against her wasn't full of obvious spite, eh?

NeedToUseYou -> RE: The Law is a Whore: DC Madam Dies (5/4/2008 12:12:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado Even after your moving of the goalposts, you are still making false assumptions about the Czech Republic being underdeveloped (their economy has skyrocketed since the fall of the Soviet Bloc, in no small part due to tourists seeking sex ), about prostitution's de facto status there (the government legalized it, and the 'grey area' of pending legislation deals with how to implement regulations permitting it to occur), and about an imaginary difference between Americans and other peoples. Read up on forced trafficking of women ( I've posted exhaustive links in threads on that topic), and show me anything that backs up the assertion that it goes away when prostitution is not prosecuted by the law... you simply won't find it. Everything else is just debate tricks, which I find pretty distasteful since the real world consequence is women and children being raped. I don't think I moved the goal posts, I simply pointed out that the scenario I proposed doesn't exist in the area you used to try to disprove my theory. I certainly don't think people are inherently different based on country of origin, but I do think economic factors cause any group of people to do things they wouldn't under better economic conditions, thus my requirement that any comparison would have to be against a similarly well off country. Anyway, your reading more into than I'm intending. The only reason I objected to your example is because currently the Czech republic is not highly regulated in regards to prostitution, which was the meat of my proposition. Thus it's apples and oranges. The Economic conditions I did state I was unsure about in the first post, but even if they are equivalent or in range with the US conditions in that regard, the fact that the regulations are non-existent, still disqualifies your example compared to what I proposed. Additionally, my assumption is that some amount of forced slavery, and rape will always exist, I was simply attempting to propose a way of lessening it. Sorta like legalizing pot, to keep people from mixing with hard drug dealers and also freeing up resources to fight hard drugs. Same logic if there was a legal place that was responsibly run, and managed, and consentual, then SOME of those johns would not be driving around soliciting crack heads, also the police could then divert some of there resources to the non-consentual prostitution. Disagree or agree, whichever, my point to you is the example you sited in this thread is not an example of what I proposed. You seem to take the fact that I reject that particular example, is because I reject the notion that I could be wrong. That's not it, it's simply that particular areas system does not represent the system I proposed. Thus it's not relevant.

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