The Torture Team

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Level -> The Torture Team (4/30/2008 7:44:19 PM)
quote: British writer and international lawyer Philippe Sands is the author of The Torture Team , in stores May 5, which chronicles the role lawyers played in the introduction of the Bush administration's program of coercive interrogation techniques. Here, Scott Horton talks to Sands about his findings. http://tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=80cf3ce9-d5c0-43d8-a5f3-5dbff7210220 http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002830

Politesub53 -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 2:05:28 AM)
As with any government, there is normally a fall guy who takes the blame, leaving the real culprits to keep doing what they do. Personally i have never doubted that this issue was top driven.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 3:24:50 AM)
As has been repeated again and again... This administration is comprised of war criminals. Either now or later they must be brought to justice and tried (fairly, unlike the way they treated others) and convicted (the most likely conclusion to my mind). There should be no escape from seeing these people before a war crimes tribunal of some kind. Anything less will mean the U.S. doesn't take care of its own problems - something the international community despises about us. Lesser offenders should get wrist-slapped. This may seem like a contradiction because many people will assume it's possible for people downstream the chain of command to disobey unlawful orders - that they are in fact constitutionally and oath bound to disobey such orders. Well, that is easier said than done and my heart goes out to soldiers, agents, etc that are bound up in the hierarchy of having to do as they are told. The people following orders may not be innocent, but they are not the most culpable either. The persons giving the orders are to blame. I see people following orders as another kind of victim, as people in a submissive posture in relation to those that dominate them by superior rank. Anything less than that and you will have the problem described by Politesub53 - you will have people of lesser rank being scapegoated for the crimes of their superiors.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 3:28:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro As has been repeated again and again... This administration is comprised of war criminals. Either now or later they must be brought to justice and tried (fairly, unlike the way they treated others) and convicted (the most likely conclusion to my mind). There should be no escape from seeing these people before a war crimes tribunal of some kind. Anything less will mean the U.S. doesn't take care of its own problems - something the international community despises about us. Lesser offenders should get wrist-slapped. This may seem like a contradiction because many people will assume it's possible for people downstream the chain of command to disobey unlawful orders - that they are in fact constitutionally and oath bound to disobey such orders. Well, that is easier said than done and my heart goes out to soldiers, agents, etc that are bound up in the hierarchy of having to do as they are told. The people following orders may not be innocent, but they are not the most culpable either. The persons giving the orders are to blame. I see people following orders as another kind of victim, as people in a submissive posture in relation to those that dominate them by superior rank. Anything less than that and you will have the problem described by Politesub53 - you will have people of lesser rank being scapegoated for the crimes of their superiors. look at it this way, which impeachment trial is better remembered, Nixon's? or Clinton's? unless Bush falls over and screws a girl scout, hes not going to get anything done to him

Rule -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 3:30:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro Either now or later they must be brought to justice and tried (fairly, unlike the way they treated others) and convicted (the most likely conclusion to my mind). Should, yes. Being struck by lightning seems more likely, though.

LadyEllen -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 3:34:07 AM)
It was interesting to hear Scalia say that torture is not forbidden by the US Constitution. Whilst the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishments, Scalia maintained that torture was not a punishment and therefore must be OK for the US to carry out. E

Loveisallyouneed -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 4:06:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It was interesting to hear Scalia say that torture is not forbidden by the US Constitution. Whilst the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishments, Scalia maintained that torture was not a punishment and therefore must be OK for the US to carry out. E So the cop that beats the crap out of you during questioning is entitled to do so because he's not administering "punishment"?

Politesub53 -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 5:32:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It was interesting to hear Scalia say that torture is not forbidden by the US Constitution. Whilst the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishments, Scalia maintained that torture was not a punishment and therefore must be OK for the US to carry out. E How can someone so stupid hold the office he does. This administration make it up as they go along.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 5:34:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 How can someone so stupid hold the office he does. this could be said about just about every member of the current administration... except cheney (I think satan prays to Him)

meatcleaver -> RE: The Torture Team (5/1/2008 6:36:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen It was interesting to hear Scalia say that torture is not forbidden by the US Constitution. Whilst the Constitution forbids cruel and unusual punishments, Scalia maintained that torture was not a punishment and therefore must be OK for the US to carry out. E Many people would say that the electric chair, lethal injection ans the gas chamber etc were cruela nd unusual punishments and the constitution appears to allow them. Though my guess is that he was being pedantic, torture isn't a cruel and unusual punishment, its a cruel and sadistic way of extracting suspect information from a person. As long as we allow our leaders to hide behind petty officials instead of taking the consequences of their decisions, we will always be in danger of being governed by criminals.

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