strategic petro reserve- (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 2:47:16 PM)

727 million barrels there. http://www.fe.doe.gov/programs/reserves/spr/spr-facts.html

we could easily release 10 million barrels.   check it out.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 3:06:03 PM)

Why? That's less than 1/2 day's consumption.



DomKen -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 3:26:50 PM)

We could however release a couple of hundred million barrels and see if the price comes down. Of course GWB won't authorize such a move since he knows the price is artificially high and his buddies are the ones getting even richer off the scam.

BTW anybody out there in west Texas? A couple of oil busts ago a lot of fields were abandoned because they cost 40 or 50 a barrel to pump. Are those fields being reopened? Shouldn't west Texas be having a massive boom time right now? Oklahoma too for that matter.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 3:36:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

We could however release a couple of hundred million barrels and see if the price comes down. Of course GWB won't authorize such a move since he knows the price is artificially high and his buddies are the ones getting even richer off the scam.

BTW anybody out there in west Texas? A couple of oil busts ago a lot of fields were abandoned because they cost 40 or 50 a barrel to pump. Are those fields being reopened? Shouldn't west Texas be having a massive boom time right now? Oklahoma too for that matter.
A lot of those fields were on secondary recovery. Many, if not most, of the wells were cemented in. Could be (what with the rig rates and all) more expensive to drill new wells right now than the oil is worth.

Many of those wells were shut in when oil went to 6 bucks a barrel in the early 80s. I was in Houston then, working for Shell Research Enhanced Recovery Research.



LadyEllen -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 5:13:04 PM)

With oil predicted to be at $200-00 a barrel before long - are any of those derelict oil wells for sale by any chance?

E



cyberdude611 -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 5:27:47 PM)

I dont think releasing that will do much good. The problem with rising oil prices is three-fold:
1. Falling value of the dollar
2. Rising demand
3. Refining capability

OPEC is right in that production of more crude will not equal a decline in prices by that much to make it worth while. The dollar needs to improve. For every 1% the dollar loses value, oil rises by $4.00....and vice-versa. So the value of the dollar is a HUGE factor in this equation. But also the refining capabilities can no longer keep up with the demand. We havnt built a new refinery in America since the 1970s. Meanwhile the global demand for refined gasoline has sky rocketed just in the past decade.

So we can have enormous amounts of oil, but unless we build the refineries to refine it....it's useless.



Hippiekinkster -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 6:35:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

With oil predicted to be at $200-00 a barrel before long - are any of those derelict oil wells for sale by any chance?

E
Highly unlikely. Most of the wells are on leased land. Lease men are the company agents who negotiate with the landowners in exchange for royalties. My ex bro-in-law & his bro own a 99 acre ranch in LaGrange and have/had a couple pumps on it. They just leased the mineral rights with right of access.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 7:39:35 PM)

I don't think they should open up those reserves, but they sure as hell could suspend fuel taxation for awhile.  The Feds and the states should both be doing this. 



DomKen -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 9:17:20 PM)

Suspend gas taxes? And where will the money for transportation infrastructure projects come from? Gas taxes at both the federal and state, in some cases at least, level are used to fund te maintenance of existing roads and the construction of new ones.



slaveboyforyou -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 10:04:05 PM)

I said suspend, as in temporarily suspend them.  Taxes for roads don't have to come from gasoline taxes.  I can think of a host of programs that could be gotten rid of for that money in my own state.  A book can be written on the money wasted by the Feds. 



DomKen -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 10:12:16 PM)

Short term suspension isn't going to do any good. Prices coming down by $0.50 a gallon might be nice but they can't stay that low if highway bills are to be funded and when the y go back up things go right back to how they are now.

As to shifting the transpo infrastructure spending to another source, do you have some idea as fundamentally fair as charging those who use the roads the most, by consuming more gas, the most for their upkeep and construction? What about the wear and tear caused by interstate trucks? How else do you propose to tax those trucks for the upkeep costs they add to the tax burden of each state?



slaveboyforyou -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 10:28:00 PM)

Toll roads seem to work, and I do believe that truckers pay more on most of them.  So that handles interstates and highways.  Local roads and highways can and are supported through traffic fines (which would include fines on truckers for a variety of NTSB violations).  Tax relief on gasoline is long overdue.  It has been discussed ever since gas prices starting rising in the last 5 years.  The problem is that politicians and selfish citizens don't want to give up money on some of their pet projects. 



NeedToUseYou -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 10:41:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Toll roads seem to work, and I do believe that truckers pay more on most of them.  So that handles interstates and highways.  Local roads and highways can and are supported through traffic fines (which would include fines on truckers for a variety of NTSB violations).  Tax relief on gasoline is long overdue.  It has been discussed ever since gas prices starting rising in the last 5 years.  The problem is that politicians and selfish citizens don't want to give up money on some of their pet projects. 


Removing the gas tax will just lull people back into consuming more gas. What's the point? Gas is a finite resource, more people are using that finite resource so it will go north no matter what eventually. What you are proposing would only help for a few years and just make that decision to buy a fuel efficient vehicle less enticing.

There is only one real solution and that is to use less gas.

Seriously what is the point of getting rid of the gas tax, to lower prices, when we know we need to start using less gas permanently.

Actually, gas taxes are one of the few taxes that make sense, as you only pay taxes on what you consume. If you're pissed at the amount of gas tax you pay, it's in your realm to control that to some degree by buying less gas, via driving less, or getting a more efficient vehicle, or car pooling, or walking occasionally, or riding a bike sometimes.





Hippiekinkster -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 10:45:17 PM)

And funding local highways & roads w/ traffic fines is a recipe for speedtraps.



Stephann -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 11:14:24 PM)

Until refining capacity increases, the price of gasoline won't drop until the supply levels out with demand.  A temporary repeal of the gas tax will simply result in a temporary increase in the profit of the companies who sell the stuff, in an effort to stave off demand to a level.  It's like the three person blanket on a bed with four people; the person who cares least about it gets to freeze that night.  Fighting over the blanket won't make it bigger.

Stephan



slaveboyforyou -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 11:18:35 PM)

quote:

And funding local highways & roads w/ traffic fines is a recipe for speedtraps.


Speedtraps are illegal here, but even if they were there is a simple way to avoid them....Don't speed. 

For the rest of the comments, I don't understand how a temporary gas tax moratorium would be harmful.  People have to drive, and all our goods are transported by truck.  Our economy is going in the shitter.  We need a stimulus to reinvigorate it.  A gasoline tax suspension would pump money into the economy.  We can get money for roads from other sources.  You can not convince me that there are not frivilous programs in every state that couldn't be cut for funding. 



Hippiekinkster -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (4/30/2008 11:37:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

And funding local highways & roads w/ traffic fines is a recipe for speedtraps.


Speedtraps are illegal here, but even if they were there is a simple way to avoid them....Don't speed. 

For the rest of the comments, I don't understand how a temporary gas tax moratorium would be harmful.  People have to drive, and all our goods are transported by truck.  Our economy is going in the shitter.  We need a stimulus to reinvigorate it.  A gasoline tax suspension would pump money into the economy.  We can get money for roads from other sources.  You can not convince me that there are not frivilous programs in every state that couldn't be cut for funding. 
It's illegal for police to be corrupt, too, but they are.

The Federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. That's trivial.

State budgets are already (mostly) in the red because of Federal tax cuts. No money for roads there.

Eliminate the gas tax, consumption increases. Consumption goes up, inventories dwindle. Inventories dwindle, the wholesalers bid up the price of gas to maintain inventories. Wholesalers charge stations more, stations raise prices.



pahunkboy -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (5/1/2008 9:05:22 AM)

18 cents is trivial i agree.

bernie sanders on c-span had some good ideas on it.

i do combine errands., in fact we consumer 6% less her in the east.  higher for some



DomKen -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (5/1/2008 9:39:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

And funding local highways & roads w/ traffic fines is a recipe for speedtraps.


Speedtraps are illegal here, but even if they were there is a simple way to avoid them....Don't speed. 

For the rest of the comments, I don't understand how a temporary gas tax moratorium would be harmful.  People have to drive, and all our goods are transported by truck.  Our economy is going in the shitter.  We need a stimulus to reinvigorate it.  A gasoline tax suspension would pump money into the economy.  We can get money for roads from other sources.  You can not convince me that there are not frivilous programs in every state that couldn't be cut for funding. 

If people don't speed under your system the state would then not make the money needed to keep up the roads. So under your system the state would be under immense pressure to issue tickets no matter what. Speedtraps would be the least of your worries.

A temporary moratorium on gas taxes might be a good answer to a temporary spike in gas prices, as happened after Katrina. When elevated gas prices are due to a fundamentally corrupt business controlling an equally corrupt government there is absolutely no reason to think a temporary moratorium wouldn't do more good than harm.

BTW the reason more refineries haven't been built and none are being proposed is because we overbuilt refinery capacity in the 60's and 70's and we are no where near reaching capacity of the existing refinery infrastructure. The proof is that in the months after Katrina vast part sof the US did not run completely out of gas even though many of the biggest refineries were completely inoperative which seems odd considering the claims that all the refineries are at capacity.



pahunkboy -> RE: strategic petro reserve- (5/1/2008 1:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Until refining capacity increases, the price of gasoline won't drop until the supply levels out with demand.  A temporary repeal of the gas tax will simply result in a temporary increase in the profit of the companies who sell the stuff, in an effort to stave off demand to a level.  It's like the three person blanket on a bed with four people; the person who cares least about it gets to freeze that night.  Fighting over the blanket won't make it bigger.

Stephan




not totally. every little thing is a reason for high prices.  too cold, summer driving, huricane, weather in china, stikes, war, regualtions, artic drilling, tax policy.   oh- the kitchen sink makes gas higher too



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