China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike

China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 12:08:27 PM)
Channel 4 news tonight reported on the plight of the Uighur people in China. Like the Tibetans, their culture is repressed, like the Tibetans they are arrested, tortured and imprisoned for as much as a comment against the Chinese authorities. Like the Tibetans, they are treated as second class citizens. Also like the Tibetans, they mounted protests against their situation during March this year, and received the same response from the authorities. Yet, how many here heard about these people or the recent protests? The Uighur people are China's Muslim minority - all eight million or so of them. Portrayed as Islamic terrorists on state TV and viewed with suspicion of links to Osama Bin Ladin, one wonders whether the general demonisation of Muslims here in the west has aided and abetted the Chinese authorities in clamping down on them. One thing is for certain in my view, the demonisation of Muslims has certainly aided and abetted an unhealthy silence here, as compared to the same suffering the Tibetan Buddhists have endured and which has been worldwide news, except in China of course. But of course, (referring to my handy notes on being a good citizen of the west), I am aware that the suffering of Muslims need not be taken into account, since they are little more than animals, who when they bite back need to be put down. E

LadyEllen -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 12:59:37 PM)
Now, am I surprised or not that there hasnt been a single response as yet? There was certainly a lot of response when we had threads about Tibetans and Buddhists suffering oppression. Is the lack of interest to do with the subject matter - Muslims suffering oppression? Is my assertion in the final paragraph of the OP correct? E

slaveboyforyou -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 2:05:02 PM)
It's not the latest hip cause celebre of Hollywood leftists or upper-middle class white kids. Buddhism is just cooler than Islam. Tibetan Buddhism is so cool that people don't actually read about the feudalism associated (something I pointed out repeatedly in the thread you mentioned.) with it. We in the West don't give a shit about anything unless some retarded, fake ass pop star, Hollywood moron, or professional socialite puts their name behind it.

LadyEllen -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 2:14:06 PM)
Yep - I recall what you wrote and it was new to me and I thank you for it. Its very easy to get caught up in the romantic image of serene monks sitting atop mountains in meditation. Having studied Tibetan Buddhism, I found what you said quite surprising - but then I guess human nature is what it is. But is that it alone - the absence of popular backing? Or is it also that these people are Muslims and so also unpopular in the modern west? E

hisannabelle -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 3:09:25 PM)
greetings ladyellen, the fact that china even HAS muslims - or that tibet actually had a muslim population as well - is rarely discussed. pre-occupation, the muslims in tibet were basically ostracized from tibetan society; in tibetan buddhism, one of the ways of getting around the idea of being non-vegetarian is that it's not your fault if you didn't kill it, and muslims were often butchers, which led to them being sometimes seen as similar to "impure" segments of society in hindu populations. i have to agree that the issue of buddhism and of certain segments of the tibetan diaspora being portrayed in certain ways makes them much more popular among western people who pay attention to things like this. it's also a problem of time, i think; it took a long time for "free tibet" to become something more than a random bleeding-heart problem in the west and it will take a long time for other downtrodden segments of the chinese population to become more visible as well. i tend to stay out of tibet threads because the issue is way more nuanced than it's made out to be and i have to be careful about what i say because of what i study/do. but my inbox is always open if people want to chat about this. respectfully, annabelle.

Politesub53 -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 3:22:58 PM)
I`m not so sure the west as a whole dehumanises Muslims. If that were the case we would have more problems here in the UK than we do. I think China isolated itself so much, the west neither know nor care what happens there. We also need to remember some muslims dehumanise us as well. Its not all one way traffic.

Alumbrado -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 5:29:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Now, am I surprised or not that there hasnt been a single response as yet? There was certainly a lot of response when we had threads about Tibetans and Buddhists suffering oppression. Is the lack of interest to do with the subject matter - Muslims suffering oppression? Is my assertion in the final paragraph of the OP correct? E Or you could bother to do the faintest bit of research, and find out that China has been oppressing their Islamic and other minoritiy groups for so long, that your suggestion that the West made them do it is a sick joke.

thornhappy -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 6:38:38 PM)
I heard about it, in the NYTimes. thornhappy

thornhappy -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 6:40:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Now, am I surprised or not that there hasnt been a single response as yet? E Probably more to do with the fact that you posted it in the middle of the afternoon, eastern daylight time. I bet most were still at work. thornhapy

LadyEllen -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 10:15:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Now, am I surprised or not that there hasnt been a single response as yet? There was certainly a lot of response when we had threads about Tibetans and Buddhists suffering oppression. Is the lack of interest to do with the subject matter - Muslims suffering oppression? Is my assertion in the final paragraph of the OP correct? E Or you could bother to do the faintest bit of research, and find out that China has been oppressing their Islamic and other minoritiy groups for so long, that your suggestion that the West made them do it is a sick joke. Or you could bother to take some English comprehension classes, then read my posts (yes, plural) again, and then make a reappraisal of what you read the first time and what you read following your education. E

pollux -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/28/2008 11:10:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Channel 4 news tonight reported on the plight of the Uighur people in China. Like the Tibetans, their culture is repressed, like the Tibetans they are arrested, tortured and imprisoned for as much as a comment against the Chinese authorities. Like the Tibetans, they are treated as second class citizens. Also like the Tibetans, they mounted protests against their situation during March this year, and received the same response from the authorities. Yet, how many here heard about these people or the recent protests? The Uighur people are China's Muslim minority - all eight million or so of them. Portrayed as Islamic terrorists on state TV and viewed with suspicion of links to Osama Bin Ladin, one wonders whether the general demonisation of Muslims here in the west has aided and abetted the Chinese authorities in clamping down on them. One thing is for certain in my view, the demonisation of Muslims has certainly aided and abetted an unhealthy silence here, as compared to the same suffering the Tibetan Buddhists have endured and which has been worldwide news, except in China of course. But of course, (referring to my handy notes on being a good citizen of the west), I am aware that the suffering of Muslims need not be taken into account, since they are little more than animals, who when they bite back need to be put down. E Demonization? Hmmm..... Radical Islam: Most famous personalities: Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Moqtada al-Sadr, Adam Gadahn, Richard Reid, Abu Nidal, Yassir Arafat, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Hassan Nasrallah. Tibetan Buddhism: Most famous personality: the Dalai Lama. Radical Islam: Principal goal: establishment of a worldwide Islamic caliphate; death or enslavement of the infidel; submission to the sky-father god, Allah. Tibetan Buddhism: Principal goal: attaining a state of egoless detachment, perfect awareness, unity with all creation, and infinite compassion for the suffering of all life. Radical Islam: Best known for: terrorism, suicide bombs, hijacking, & kidnapping; threatening authors, cartoonists, & outspoken critics; murdering filmmakers and converts to other religions; female genital mutilation, genocidal wars, honor killings, Shar'ia law, burkhas, fatwas, beheadings, psychotic anti-semitism, and jihad. Tibetan Buddhism: Best known for: meditation, prayer wheels, prayer flags, butter lamps, mandalas, and multiphonic chant. Radical Islam: Major accomplishments of the modern era: attacks in NYC, attacks in Washington D.C., attacks in London, attacks in Madrid, attacks in Israel, attacks in Iraq, attacks in Germany, attacks in Bali, attacks in Scotland, attacks in India, attacks in Pakistan, attacks in Saudi Arabia, attacks in France, attacks in Lebanon. Tibetan Buddhism: Major accomplishments of the modern era: transmittal of generations of enlightened Buddhist teachings expressing compassion for all sentient beings. I guess you can tell where my sympathies lie.

Alumbrado -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/29/2008 5:28:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Now, am I surprised or not that there hasnt been a single response as yet? There was certainly a lot of response when we had threads about Tibetans and Buddhists suffering oppression. Is the lack of interest to do with the subject matter - Muslims suffering oppression? Is my assertion in the final paragraph of the OP correct? E Or you could bother to do the faintest bit of research, and find out that China has been oppressing their Islamic and other minoritiy groups for so long, that your suggestion that the West made them do it is a sick joke. Or you could bother to take some English comprehension classes, then read my posts (yes, plural) again, and then make a reappraisal of what you read the first time and what you read following your education. E If that is your way of backpedalling from the bigoted and trolling insinuations of your OP and your subsequent whining that a 50 minute delay while people were at work meant no one cares, it isn't working. You find these 'causes' long after everyone else, and try to puff yourself up as more enlightened, but you continue to come across as a cheerleader for hate.

meatcleaver -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/29/2008 7:12:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pollux quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Channel 4 news tonight reported on the plight of the Uighur people in China. Like the Tibetans, their culture is repressed, like the Tibetans they are arrested, tortured and imprisoned for as much as a comment against the Chinese authorities. Like the Tibetans, they are treated as second class citizens. Also like the Tibetans, they mounted protests against their situation during March this year, and received the same response from the authorities. Yet, how many here heard about these people or the recent protests? The Uighur people are China's Muslim minority - all eight million or so of them. Portrayed as Islamic terrorists on state TV and viewed with suspicion of links to Osama Bin Ladin, one wonders whether the general demonisation of Muslims here in the west has aided and abetted the Chinese authorities in clamping down on them. One thing is for certain in my view, the demonisation of Muslims has certainly aided and abetted an unhealthy silence here, as compared to the same suffering the Tibetan Buddhists have endured and which has been worldwide news, except in China of course. But of course, (referring to my handy notes on being a good citizen of the west), I am aware that the suffering of Muslims need not be taken into account, since they are little more than animals, who when they bite back need to be put down. E Demonization? Hmmm..... Radical Islam: Most famous personalities: Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Moqtada al-Sadr, Adam Gadahn, Richard Reid, Abu Nidal, Yassir Arafat, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Hassan Nasrallah. Islam is not an hierarchical religion so muslims can only speak for themselves so the above are not typical of muslims, at least in my street. To suggest the above are a typical example of Islam is to say Hitler is a typical example of Christianity (I guess he was) or Ben Gurion was typical of Judaism “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” (and he did) One could make an atypical list of names and demonize any population.

pollux -> RE: China vs Tibet; now for something different but alike (4/29/2008 5:11:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: pollux quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Channel 4 news tonight reported on the plight of the Uighur people in China. Like the Tibetans, their culture is repressed, like the Tibetans they are arrested, tortured and imprisoned for as much as a comment against the Chinese authorities. Like the Tibetans, they are treated as second class citizens. Also like the Tibetans, they mounted protests against their situation during March this year, and received the same response from the authorities. Yet, how many here heard about these people or the recent protests? The Uighur people are China's Muslim minority - all eight million or so of them. Portrayed as Islamic terrorists on state TV and viewed with suspicion of links to Osama Bin Ladin, one wonders whether the general demonisation of Muslims here in the west has aided and abetted the Chinese authorities in clamping down on them. One thing is for certain in my view, the demonisation of Muslims has certainly aided and abetted an unhealthy silence here, as compared to the same suffering the Tibetan Buddhists have endured and which has been worldwide news, except in China of course. But of course, (referring to my handy notes on being a good citizen of the west), I am aware that the suffering of Muslims need not be taken into account, since they are little more than animals, who when they bite back need to be put down. E Demonization? Hmmm..... Radical Islam: Most famous personalities: Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Moqtada al-Sadr, Adam Gadahn, Richard Reid, Abu Nidal, Yassir Arafat, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, and Hassan Nasrallah. Islam is not an hierarchical religion so muslims can only speak for themselves so the above are not typical of muslims, at least in my street. To suggest the above are a typical example of Islam is to say Hitler is a typical example of Christianity (I guess he was) or Ben Gurion was typical of Judaism “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” (and he did) One could make an atypical list of names and demonize any population. If you didn't exist, meat, I'd have to invent you.

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