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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 2:51:09 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Indeed, RL. Lets give praise for a system where at least the obscenely rich have a chance to assuage their misery.


Z.


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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 3:10:43 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		It is a really stupid email...Thanks for sharing.


Fist off, that is not how one catches wild pigs....What a fucked up analogy....Comparing wild pigs to the poor of this country.


What happens to the wild pigs when their natural habitat has been destroyed? What happens when the herd is forced to be relocated because no one wants a herd of wild pigs on their land or is willing to give them the same opportunity that other woodland creatures take for granted?


Fucking pigs....Always rootin' around for truffels when they should be hard at work.


Youy know what I really dig about this kind of a thread? I always wonder how the person who has posted it or authored it has taken advantage of the resources that are available to them?

I have found that the people that are the most bitter about "others" are often the very same people that haven't really done shit with their own lives. The American dream didn't work out for them because they were never really willing to work for the American dream....Just some thoughts on the matter.

Also, why are pigs soooo fucking tasty? If pigs are yummy think how tasty lil' piglets must be. I would like to eat a new born pig.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/24/2008 3:11:11 PM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 3:29:05 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		I think your ideas might be heading in THIS direction DG. Tender and juicy. Mmmmmm.

I wonder if the bullet riddled story teller in the OP was an innocent victim, an honourable soldier or maybe a member of a paramilitary gang "disappearing" opponents of the regime. The story is a little thin on such important details. We are expected to accept that his fable is infused with righteousness owing to the "communist" bullet in his back.


Z.


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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 4:57:40 PM   
Archer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
Problem with socialism has proven to be the self limiting factor of high achievers due to lack of compensation outpaces the rise in productivity created by the low achievers brought along for the ride resulting in mediocrity.


I know exactly what you mean. The brain surgeons in London and Stockholm have to take to the streets and beg for scraps. Shameful...




Wow talk about a misread? You really misread it that badly, or you just upset that someone brought up the blazingly obvious problem that has been observed with socialism for decades?

Self limiting factor of high achievers is so obviously not a begging in the streets example.
But because you so like to condecend to others I'll return the favor here.
Self limiting-  people have a habit of working only as much as they are compensated for Socialism has been proven to limit many high achievers to lower achievement because it does not address self interest at the personal level.

Yes it raises the level of some of the lower achievers by giving them a basic level of security, but it also brings down some high achievers to the basic level of security. (Not doctors begging for scraps but making the same money as a office mail runner even though the qualifications for the job are higher)  The trade off in the resulting production of the society as a whole though has been shown to be lower when the compensation of high achievers is artificially limited.
Pay doctors the same as mail runners and the result is a shortage of doctors and more mail handlers than you need.


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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 6:01:15 PM   
Marc2b


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quote:

What first attracted me to socialism was the opportunity it afforded to deny everyone in the world any chance of happiness. Too good to pass up, really.


I whole heartedly agree. I am, however, willing to grant that at least some socialists really do mean well but are just deluded.

< Message edited by Marc2b -- 4/24/2008 6:17:36 PM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 6:06:52 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, right. The way it works in my head, everybody has to wear a grey uniform with a little peaked cap, all made out of really scratchy material that chafes the skin, makes you too hot in summer and too cold in winter and attracts lice.  And I thought it might help trample the human spirit that little bit more if instead of walking freely, we all had to march the streets in columns everywhere we went.  Because that is exactly what socialism is all about.

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 7:14:50 PM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		The OP story is obviously total bullshit like a lot of stories forwarded on the internet to gullible folks predisposed to believe anything that reinforces their already formed opinions. With todays medical technology, there is no such thing as an inoperable bullet wound, even if the bullet was lodged near the spine or a vital organ. If one had such an "inopereable" condition, one would certainly not be in class, or anyplace else, holding forth on how to catch wild pigs, which, as domiguy pointed out, is more bullshit.

So, what's left is to discuss , again?  Peoples' unchangeable views on social conditions and their causes and "solutions". Just another circle jerk, imo.

Anybody got a doob ?


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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/24/2008 7:23:46 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Like THIS, RL? Or THIS?

Oh, are those socialist institutions? Oops, they are capitalist workhouses aka prisons for the poor. But I bet those rags aren't itchy at all...

When you first spouted this nonsense RL, I was sure you were joking. And I joked along. I can't believe anyone could possibly be so ill informed about socialism and still be alive in the twenty-first century.


Z.




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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 12:17:57 AM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Like THIS, RL? Or THIS?

Oh, are those socialist institutions? Oops, they are capitalist workhouses aka prisons for the poor. But I bet those rags aren't itchy at all...

When you first spouted this nonsense RL, I was sure you were joking. And I joked along. I can't believe anyone could possibly be so ill informed about socialism and still be alive in the twenty-first century.


Z.





Yep. Cos I'm such an arch-capitalist.

Why do I bother?

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 2:04:53 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Problem with socialism has proven to be the self limiting factor of high achievers due to lack of compensation outpaces the rise in productivity created by the low achievers brought along for the ride resulting in mediocrity.





Which is why Americans have a shorter life expectancy than western Europeans?

Archer, you are clueless about socialism and you seem blind to your own country. I've seen homes in the USA that we wouldn't be allowed to keep a dog in here. Its not about material reward, its about human decency. You can keep your pretence of rugged individualism, it just doesn't wash, its myth, its propaganda to keep you all in your place.

Apart from that, I haven't noticed American cultural, industrial and scientific achievements out stripping European achievements, your claim to European mediocrity is nonsense.

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 3:25:32 AM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Meatcleaver:

You have it all wrong. We Americans make better cars than anyone. The Japanese and German car manufacturers can't compete with our amazing engineering and design excellence...

...oh wait...


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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 4:05:14 AM   
scarlett2511


Posts: 1
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Status: offline 		lol i eat pork for xmas

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 4:53:15 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Problem with socialism has proven to be the self limiting factor of high achievers due to lack of compensation outpaces the rise in productivity created by the low achievers brought along for the ride resulting in mediocrity.





Which is why Americans have a shorter life expectancy than western Europeans?

Archer, you are clueless about socialism and you seem blind to your own country. I've seen homes in the USA that we wouldn't be allowed to keep a dog in here. Its not about material reward, its about human decency. You can keep your pretence of rugged individualism, it just doesn't wash, its myth, its propaganda to keep you all in your place.

Apart from that, I haven't noticed American cultural, industrial and scientific achievements out stripping European achievements, your claim to European mediocrity is nonsense.


I haven't notice European cultural, industrial and scientific achievements out stripping American achievements.  Your claim to American mediocrity is nonsense.

Firm 

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 4/25/2008 4:54:03 AM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 7:59:04 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Small s socialism has had a smaller limiting effect, Big S Socialism has had a bigger effect. Employement rates speak to it n many cases, even with 40+ hour work weeks the US has held generally a lower level of unemployment than the small s socialist countries in Europe that have 30 hour weeks. (some small short term closings of that gap have been seen).


But thanks for the you're clueless insults they keep you consistant with your history.
Having a disagreeing view backed with plenty of widely held perspectives is now clueless. I'll keep that in mind.

The great big S socialist experment of the USSR failed. That is a fact of history that the backers of socialism have failed to address.

Are there serious problems wih the have nothings in the US sure but on average the poor here have a standard of living  as far as home and stuff that ballances against european middle class in many areas.
More sq ft per person, Air condidtioning, Automobiles, etc. All backed up with the Heritage Foundation study looking into exactly that. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

Yes I alrady know the nay sayers will bust my chops for using a Heritage Foundation report. So what plenty of biased sources get used around here to support more left leaning perspectives.

BTW you'll go back and notice I never brought Europe into it I mearly addressthe socialist ideas, it was YOU who jumped to the comparison. Guessing maybe a too close to the truth and you felt the bite.



< Message edited by Archer -- 4/25/2008 8:02:20 AM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 8:19:48 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Problem with socialism has proven to be the self limiting factor of high achievers due to lack of compensation outpaces the rise in productivity created by the low achievers brought along for the ride resulting in mediocrity.





Which is why Americans have a shorter life expectancy than western Europeans?

Archer, you are clueless about socialism and you seem blind to your own country. I've seen homes in the USA that we wouldn't be allowed to keep a dog in here. Its not about material reward, its about human decency. You can keep your pretence of rugged individualism, it just doesn't wash, its myth, its propaganda to keep you all in your place.

Apart from that, I haven't noticed American cultural, industrial and scientific achievements out stripping European achievements, your claim to European mediocrity is nonsense.


I haven't notice European cultural, industrial and scientific achievements out stripping American achievements.  Your claim to American mediocrity is nonsense.

Firm 


I never said America was mediocre, that is your assumption to what I said. Have you an inferiority complex?

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 8:30:59 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Small s socialism has had a smaller limiting effect, Big S Socialism has had a bigger effect. Employement rates speak to it n many cases, even with 40+ hour work weeks the US has held generally a lower level of unemployment than the small s socialist countries in Europe that have 30 hour weeks. (some small short term closings of that gap have been seen).


But thanks for the you're clueless insults they keep you consistant with your history.
Having a disagreeing view backed with plenty of widely held perspectives is now clueless. I'll keep that in mind.

The great big S socialist experment of the USSR failed. That is a fact of history that the backers of socialism have failed to address.

Are there serious problems wih the have nothings in the US sure but on average the poor here have a standard of living  as far as home and stuff that ballances against european middle class in many areas.
More sq ft per person, Air condidtioning, Automobiles, etc. All backed up with the Heritage Foundation study looking into exactly that. http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

Yes I alrady know the nay sayers will bust my chops for using a Heritage Foundation report. So what plenty of biased sources get used around here to support more left leaning perspectives.

BTW you'll go back and notice I never brought Europe into it I mearly addressthe socialist ideas, it was YOU who jumped to the comparison. Guessing maybe a too close to the truth and you felt the bite.




I know what employment means in the US and in many countries in western Europe people are classed as unemployed, not because they are not working but they are not earning enough to be considered to be earning a living wage. There was one American woman on these threads lamenting about how little she earned in a week and it was not enough to be considered a living wage here and so she would have been classed as unemployed even though she was working.

More square feet living space means nothing, that is determined by how much space a country has, that varies from country to country in Europe depending on the amount of land a country has, which determines the cost of land. Air conditioning is a red herring since most hot European countries model their day around the heat of the day. When I lived in France I would have a break from work during the hottest hours which was between 12 noon and 4pm when I would relac with friends over a meal and drinks and then have a siesta before working another couple of hours. Cars are another red herring, it would take langer for me to drive across the city here than cycle or use cheap public transport. When I moved to Amsterdam I sold my car because it was largely pointless owning one, a pointless expense many people find having.

The USSR was never socialist, it was a dictatorship and whether they call themselves left or right is largely irrelevent.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/25/2008 8:33:51 AM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 9:09:48 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Housing space not relevent????? So over crowding has no quality of life impact I'll alert the social scientists world wide who say it's a real problem some places that it has not impact according to you.

http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.com/pa/cm200203/cmbills/046/2003046.pdf

http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/sitemap/services/environment/cd_ph_public_health/standardshousing/cd_ph_overcrowding.htm

So this housing overcrowding is not a problem obviously since they saw the need to develope and institute government standards.


Seems Finland compares the European Countries with the same values as the Heritage Foundation compared the US to Europe. They discribe the differences a little different, but they compare the same things so it's can't be all that far off.

http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/tk/el/echp_national_characteristics_remain_in_housing.pdf




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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 11:28:48 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
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Status: offline 		I'm trying to work out your point. There are several issues with living space, health and cultural which is largely to do with amount of space. In a country the size of Holland with 16 million people, the space is going to be more restricted than a US state such as Idaho with a population of 1.4 million and a area five times the size. The quality of the housing is crucial. No where is perfect but from what I have seen, no one here lives in little more than sheds which I have seen in some areas in the states.

Buying a house in Georgia with the same area of living space I have here in Amsterdam would cost me $127,500. http://homes.point2.com/US/Georgia/Lee-County/Leesburg/groover-park/1689403-Real-Estate.aspx However, if I bought a house in Georgia for the same price as my appartment in Amsterdam which is valued around $600,000, I could get considerably more living space. http://homes.point2.com/US/Georgia/Atlanta/Brookhaven/Drew-Valley/1689408-Real-Estate.aspx  I suppose I could move to France and buy a little something special for the same price as the large house in Georgia http://www.green-acres.com/en/properties/86bri-1340.htm

It depends where you choose to live how much space you have for the money you have. Quality and sanitation is the key. Though if I couldn't afford to buy or rent, I could rent a good quality apartment or house with the help of a government subsidy, this being a social democratic country. Extra living space would be a plus but then a field could be classed as extra living space.

However, I'm pretty sure I would prefer living in Amsterdam because I don't have to worry about the extra costs of healthcare and transport, plus, if I want I can blow cannabis smoke in a policeman's face and not worry about being arrested if I wanted to hump a lady of the night.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/25/2008 11:58:14 AM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 11:57:33 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The standards have been set by governments as to # of people per room that remains mentally healthy that is effected by culture but not to as large an extent as it seems you want to make it. Scientific data says it's X number of people per room or per sqft.
So it is a viable scientificly backed criteria for standard of living.

The available space is a side issue that may cause the why but does not effect the minimum space required.




< Message edited by Archer -- 4/25/2008 11:58:39 AM >

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RE: Catching Wild Pigs - 4/25/2008 12:02:03 PM   
meatcleaver


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Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		You posted while I was editing. As I pointed out, a field could be classed as living space but it would hardly count as quality accomodation.

I'll have to check the Brit regs out as I haven't lived there for years but even though there is some bad housing in Britain, I haven't seen any as bad as what I have witnessed some Americans living in.

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