Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar

Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (Full Version)

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slaveboyforyou -> Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 2:50:05 PM)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080420/ts_afp/foodbiofuelsclimatewarming quote: PARIS (AFP) - Hailed until only months ago as a silver bullet in the fight against global warming, biofuels are now accused of snatching food out of the mouths of the poor. Billions have been poured into developing sugar- and grain-based ethanol and biodiesel to help wean rich economies from their addiction to carbon-belching fossil fuels, the overwhelming source of man-made global warming. We were talking in another thread about alternative fuels. Well here's what the overhyped biodiesel is doing to poor people around the world. People are having food riots in contries like Hati; where a common substitute for food is mud. Thanks Al Gore and the rest of the alarmists. You may have created a new epidemic of hunger and malnutrition in promoting your chicken little ideas to the impressionable dolts living in privilged countries.

SugarMyChurro -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 3:29:27 PM)
You've correctly identified the problem, but wrongly identified the villains. D- [8\|]

LotusSong -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 3:33:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080420/ts_afp/foodbiofuelsclimatewarming quote: PARIS (AFP) - Hailed until only months ago as a silver bullet in the fight against global warming, biofuels are now accused of snatching food out of the mouths of the poor. Billions have been poured into developing sugar- and grain-based ethanol and biodiesel to help wean rich economies from their addiction to carbon-belching fossil fuels, the overwhelming source of man-made global warming. We were talking in another thread about alternative fuels. Well here's what the overhyped biodiesel is doing to poor people around the world. People are having food riots in contries like Hati; where a common substitute for food is mud. Thanks Al Gore and the rest of the alarmists. You may have created a new epidemic of hunger and malnutrition in promoting your chicken little ideas to the impressionable dolts living in privilged countries. Not Gore but GREED has caused all of this, the result of being more hungry for money than food.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 3:54:43 PM)
quote: Not Gore but GREED has caused all of this, the result of being more hungry for money than food. Yes and this greed was spawned by a trend toward alternative fuels. The trend towards that goal was started in two camps; environmentalists and isolationists. Now most of the isolationists I have read and heard from favor exploring more of our own fossil fuel reserves. The isolationists have not been the loudest. The environmentalists have and they have been touting this crap for the last 20 years. They didn't listen when learned folks told them this was a bad idea. So I may be showing my bias against Gore, but I still find his overzealousness and ignorance partially responsible for what is happening and going to happen.

bipolarber -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 4:02:34 PM)
SB4U, are you on any kind of medication? Are you checking the doses, making sure you're getting enough/not too much? Really man, just because you lose an argument on another thread is no reason to go all "Chicken Little" on us. Calm down.

domiguy -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 4:04:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou We were talking in another thread about alternative fuels. Well here's what the overhyped biodiesel is doing to poor people around the world. People are having food riots in contries like Hati; where a common substitute for food is mud. Thanks Al Gore and the rest of the alarmists. You may have created a new epidemic of hunger and malnutrition in promoting your chicken little ideas to the impressionable dolts living in privilged countries. Oh my fucking God! Is this supposed to be humorous? When have you ever given two squirts of piss over he plight of the peoples of Hati or Haiti? The quest for alternative fuels is evil...lol. It's good that you don't wear your bias on your sleeve...Ever consider having an elephants ass tattooed to your forehead? The biggest problem facing Haiti is due to environmentalists and isolationists....They will be happy to know once they have eliminated those two problems that their world will be A-okay. How do you come up with this kind of shit?

RealityLicks -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 4:06:34 PM)
Actually, the introduction of biofuels has been poorly managed but it is overall much more complex than you outline above. I'm not sure you can lay the blame at any one person's door as a number of factors have contributed to the mess. Also, the direct correlation made between food shortage and biofuel production is in reality not direct but partial.

xBullx -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 6:49:11 PM)
-fast reply- The grains used in biofuels are not the same grains used in the human diet folks. The gluten and bean meals are still used to feed the same animals it did prior to the alternative fuel push, Contrary to common knowledge we have been doing this a good while now. The food quality for some animal types suffers some, for others not so much. The gluten (gluten is the corn by product) makes great cattle feed, but in swine it is not as good, though suitable to some degree, the underbelly of the hog is a more pale colored and (spongier) meat. That's the part of the hog where your bacon comes from. I'm not sure why this happens, but I know it does. I am sure that the hog industry is working on solutions, you see it seems while some people cry foul and want the world to regress others are trying to find paths forward. My point is this; don't blame food shortages or food costs on the alternative fuels, it only discredits your argument in the end. We have ways to feed the third world or any other world if they weren't so damn corrupt and uncaring all on their own. I will say that production costs have increased some in the process but that is due to greed and those that take advantage of a situation just like Exxon and others have. Ahhh HuMaNiTy, we'll sell our own mothers into slavery or death to make a profit. Until death do we part; have a wonderful evening................

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 7:03:17 PM)
quote: SB4U, are you on any kind of medication? Are you checking the doses, making sure you're getting enough/not too much? Really man, just because you lose an argument on another thread is no reason to go all "Chicken Little" on us. Calm down. No that's not what I was doing, slim. I saw the story, and I found it interesting. I felt it didn't relate to the other thread completely. So I posted a new thread. I didn't lose any argument; I don't know what you're talking about. You can disagree with me all you want, but your little insults are laughable. I don't really mind insults, but at least try to make them funny. If you don't like the thread, than don't respond. If you have a counter argument, than by all means state it.

TheHeretic -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 8:03:36 PM)
I had to get all the way to the last line of the article, but here was something interesting... In addition, the surging cost of oil has had an indirect impact on many poor people, adding to the pinch caused by rising food prices. Because after all, $4.00 a gallon gas isn't going to increase the cost of producing and transporting food. Once again, the problem is using food crops for the feedstock.

DomKen -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 11:13:18 PM)
Actually as near as I can tell the problem is lax enforcement of anti trust laws. We're not making anywhere near enough ethanol or biodiesel to consume any significant part of the US much less global harvest. The first time this started being claimed I checked with my cousin who lives in rural Alabama and knows a lot of farmers and he says they're all still getting paid the same as usual by ADM and no other buyers for white corn or soybeans are out there. So if ADM and its cronies are still buying at the usual prices why has the price to the consumer gone up? Is it perhaps because ADM is a monopoly and knows that the Bush administration has no interest in pursuing any anti trust actions? I will point out that a lot of talk about poor people getting gouged in Haiti is coming up but I've yet to hear anything about the poor in any EU nation having problems with high food prices. That couldn't possibly be because the EU does pursue anti trust actions vigorously could it?

TheHeretic -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 11:31:05 PM)
Could be, Ken, or it might just be a post hoc-ergo hoc illusion. I know from my own trips to the grocery store that food prices are up in Southern California, but feeding my family is actually a fairly minor part of my budget. I'm a bit more sale concious, a bit less likely to pick up the little delicacies. For those on the edge of starvation, the price increases I mostly ignore could be critical.

DomKen -> RE: Biofuels under attack as world food prices soar (4/20/2008 11:42:08 PM)
The question is inside the US how much of the cost increases we're seeing are a result of high gas and diesel pries and how much is being tacked on by the processors for no discernable reason? A major component of fodd prices is the cost of transporting the food from producer through the network to the consumer and a major component of the transpo cost is the cost of fuel. Therefore with fuel prices more than doubling in the last few years we should expect to see a significant cost increase from that alone. What I'm saying is that claiming there is a supply issue involved in rising food prices seems to be an out right lie. Go look up the corn and soybean futures for the last couple of years and you'll see no dramatic increase in prices. So if supply is meeting demand why are the prices charged by the grain and soy processors for their products going up so fast? We all know ADM has been busted for monopoly practices repeatedly in the past and we know the present DoJ isn't going to do anything but we also see that prices aren't going up as much in Europe which seems to be a strong piece of evidence that this is the processors doing.

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