I am such a crudbucket (Full Version)

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MladyHathor -> I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 4:19:02 PM)

Ok here is My issue---and I look for advice:
 
I have a single gay friend--we met him a few years before My Mom passed--she and he "adopted" each other as they both had some socialization issues ( introversion, panic, anxiety in crowds, etc)--- mother passed almost three years ago, he could not bring himself to come--ok I get that.
 
Since I have known him, I am the rescuer it seems--the strong one, the solid tree in the raging waters of life--his gayness has driven him to make bad partner decisions---to the point of leaving job, career and all to run to another town. His life insecurity has led him to make bad substance abuse decisions (Canadian prescriptions for narcotics). His American Gothic parents cannot understand his flambouyant, effusive approach to life. I have loaned him money, called the paramedics when he had a drug induced seizure in My kitchen, let him crash on My couch.
 
I have lectured him, sent him on his way, and told him I am not having any more drama in My home or My life.  A few months ago, he seemed to be getting his life on track--no drugs, a good job, toleration of his parents--he was making plans with another gay friend (not lovers)--to get a rental house, get a better job and start to build a decent life.
 
Today, he called, left a message that he has a problem and he must talk to Me ( he also knows I am a Minister in traning)--and that only I would understand---gawd help Me, I cannot face it, I cannot hear again that he has issues problems, I cannot bring drama into My life or My heart again---I cannot feel guilty that he and My Mom were friends---I have JUST gotten over the guilt I felt that Mom died by her own decision ( stopped taking her BP meds)---
 
 
I cannot--and I feel like shit.



Level -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 4:29:58 PM)

Some people will zero in on your conscience, and hammer it until you give them what they want.
 
You can't fix or save everyone in the world. If you want to help, and have the strength, then try. If not, don't. [8|]



chellekitty -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 4:49:43 PM)

my suggestion would be to call him back or when he calls back have a list of numbers to refer him to, obviously he can pick up the phone, if he is serious about talking to someone and/or getting some help, he will call someone else...don't let him drag you in...be strong, set boundaries, have an excuse ready to be able to get off the phone when you are done - you need to go to the store, you were about to get in the shower, something...

you can't do more than you can do - sounds simple huh? but here is something you can do...you can't be there for others if you're not there for yourself first, airplane safety lesson...put your mask on first, so that you may be able to assist others, obviously he is too much for you to handle right now...refer him to someone that is not so personally involved and can be of some help...

good luck
chelle



atursvcMaam -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 4:50:27 PM)

   2 things:
    When they talk about the emergency procedures on the airplane, they always say "when the mask drops put Your own on first"  The reason for that is that You can't save anyone else if You are in distress Yourself.
     when training to be a lifeguard, one gets taught to make sure that the rescue can get accomplished before getting in the water. 
     i know that it sounds cold, and sounds cruddy, but it is better to save one's self, than to have someone else have to save (or worse recover) two.
      imho, do what You can, but make sure that You can take care of Yourself.



Gwynvyd -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 4:54:47 PM)

It is very hard when others are co-dependant to thier own detriment. When you give and give to the point where you are hurting them as much as helping them.. you are in a catch 22 situation. ( one I know quite well )

Being as that you are a minister in training I would urge you to seek your spiritual advisors council and let them know how you feel. get it all out and see how in the end it would benifit your friend, and you by once again hearing the direction he is taking.. and by feeling compelled to help.

These type of situations are always so taxing on us who are the "fixers".

Just realize in your mothers, and in your friends situations... you can not help nor fix any aspect of thier life. Only they can.

You can be a good friend or daughter, and listen.. give support... but in the end it is *thier* actions and choices that effect *thier* lives. No matter how a passive agressive person will say otherwise. (often it is "well if *you* had just given me xyz, or helped me with xyz everything would be fine) ~ There is always the next time.. and the time after that.. and the time after that.

There comes a time to not be the crutch.. but to simply be the friend.

I hope this helps you.. and brings you some peace. It has been a hard won lesson for me that is for sure...

*hugs*  Take it easier on your self.


Gwyn



stella41b -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 5:20:48 PM)

Life is really what you make it. You cannot help anyone who won't help themselves sounds quite a bit like a cliche I guess, but quite often you can't help someone without protecting your own interests. No point in helping someone if they are going to drag you down with them, so to speak.

Not everyone can be strong in life, not everyone can be independent, and yes people do make mistakes in life. Some of these mistakes cost these people far more than they think. We all have times of weakness but those times of weakness are temporary and there comes a point when you can end up being weak through choice, or too dependent on others.

I would be open, I wouldn't avoid him, but I would be firm - no drama. I would refuse to feel guilty either. What's gone has gone, it's the past and today is a new day. Where is the debt and obligation? It seems like you need to reconcile the past. You still need time to mourn the passing of your mother - the most important person in your life.

Three years is time enough to resolve substance misuse issues and learn to stand on one's feet, or at least to have built one's own support network. I therefore say it's time to stop living in the past and move on - for better for worse. It's time to stand firm, to listen with an open mind, but to be strong enough and brave enough to say 'no' and mean it.




popeye1250 -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 5:22:02 PM)

I have a bum brother like that.
I let him stay with me years ago and he cost me an enourmous amount of money.
He tried to contact me here and I told him by letter that he won't get in the front door of this place under any circumstances.
It's like the old saying,...."fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."
Users are real good at what they do.
(But, they do respect a base ball bat.)



Emperor1956 -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 5:41:27 PM)

Dear OP:

Is this person a "friend"?  Because your statement surely makes it sound like he was your mother's friend, and not yours.  Indeed, that you have unresolved anger towards your mother and  towards this person screams out from your post.  You blame his issues on his "gayness", surely a harsh diagnosis, and one bordering on homophobia.  If that weren't enough, you slam his family as well.  And the rest of your post?  You tell us all about you, you, you...and nothing about his concerns.  Indeed, from your post it sounds like you don't know WHY he wants to talk to you...only that he does want to talk to you. 

Might I suggest that you say to him "I'm sorry, but I am not the person for you to confide in.  I am dealing with my own concerns, and I am unable to assist you."  That would be the decent thing to do, as you clearly are unwilling and probably unable to help him without being judgmental and dangerous.  Might I also suggest that you rethink your calling to "minister" to others?

E

(edited in an attempt at clarity)



Real_Trouble -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 5:43:03 PM)

I fail to understand your self-loathing.

You are refusing to be an enabler and to be a victim.

What is the problem here?

The right thing to do is not to let people take advantage of you, and not to live their life in such a way that they are an unholy scourge to everyone around them.  You should not feel bad about doing that; perhaps it is hard, but it is the right thing to do.

Good luck.



lighthearted -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 6:05:04 PM)

just because you two are friends doesn't mean you have to be his crutch, available 24/7.  when you are up to speaking to him, then call him.  nobody in this world expects you to be the perfect person, except yourself! 

when you do decide to call, then you can find out what the problem is.  don't jump to the conclusion it will be catastrophic, maybe it's just something little.

that will be 25 cents.  [:D]



KCherry -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 6:06:27 PM)

Its not a weakness to want to help others just dont let them push you too far, if you have had enough of your friend just gingerly say so and dont feel bad for doing so.



windchymes -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 6:13:12 PM)

Is it possible to listen to what he has to say, not put yourself in the position of being "rescuer", but rather as advisor?  Lend a sympathetic ear, verbally offer suggestions and guidance to help HIM solve HIS problem(s), rather than you taking on the burden of his problem and doing the work to find the solution? 

People like him are called "emotional bloodsuckers".  They come along, drain you dry, and then fly away back out into the world to create more problems for themselves so that they can suck the life out of their next prey.  And they prey on the good hearts of the world :) 



Vendaval -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 6:16:56 PM)

Can you refer him to another minister or mental health professional?
Would he honor your request of "no more drama"?
How much of a toll has this situation taken on your own energy?
What would your mother advise in this situation?



velvetears -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 6:20:46 PM)

Don't feel like shit because you cannot deal with this persons issues, or even listen to them at this point in your life.  We each have a tolerance level and he obviously overflowed yours. You were a good friend to him and tried to help him, in doing so you extended yourself past the boundaries where you felt comfortable.  It's extremely difficult dealing with needy people who don't make good decisions for themselves, you should not be expected to pay the price for his mistakes.  No need for any kind of excuses or hostility towards this guy, simply tell him your plate is full at this point and you cannot deal with any other issues than the ones already occupying your mind. If he is any kind of friend to YOU he will give you the space you need and  back off and find another "friend" to confide in and look to help him with his never ending source of problems. 



MladyHathor -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 7:23:21 PM)

Ouch----
 
My thanks to everyone who posted and to those who wrote on the other side ( I will respond to everyone in due course)---the greatest lesson, is to listen and not feel I am responsible for the solution---a lot of good advice--
 
 
as for Emperor---you missed a few points---if he was not My friend---I would not have loaned him money, let him crash at My place or saved him repeatedly---your damn right I made a comment about his narrow minded  parents, ---because I was the one who has made them come to the hospital when he was in such serious straights and when they were too ready to let strangers decide his fate-- if ever there were ostrichs, these people are it---as for being a homophobe--far from it---in fact a long way from it---I used the term gayness, I am sure in the wrong phraseology--it was an attempt to show one of the banners under which he makes bad decisions: " I am gay, I have no one, I am odd, so I will take the first willing, breathing subject that comes along"-- just like, " I am insecure, so I will take pills and numb the pain."
 
as for being a minister--I am human, and as such I need to understand that very humanity and that at times I stop helping someone by helping them too much. 



PanthersMom -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/19/2008 8:41:47 PM)

even ministers, psychologists and psychiatrists are all human beings and have the right to say they cannot handle a certain person or case as it is too emotionally draining to them.  they get burned out too.  just because they are there to advise and assist people with making life decisions, it doesn't mean that things can't gang up on them and make life difficult.  advising the friend to find help with qualified professionals might be the best thing, after all, you are not finished with your training and may not be able to ethically deal with this "thing".   a fully certified member of the clergy or a mental health professional might be better suited. 
PM



Termyn8or -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/20/2008 5:28:49 AM)

I am coming to the realization that you can't help people.

Half the time they already know what you are going to tell them, but they don't have the balls or the self control to implement the advice. The other half of the time they think you are full of shit.

To the latter I say this - If I am wrong, why is it that you are coming to me with these issues rather than me coming to you ? And as to the former, they are not worth the time.

So crudbuckets unite ! We are the evil motherfucker who dare to know how to run our lives and don't ask these stupid questions. We know how to stay away from assholes, not spend too much money and not get stupid and wreck our lives any worse than society already has.

We know how to solve our problems without drugs or professional intervention. We know loneliness at times and can handle it rather than hopping into some idiot's arms. We know how to manage our money, resources and time. We know how to make a decision on what we can, cannot, and should not change in life. We know either how to play or stay the fuck out of office politics and all that headgame shit.

And above all we know, or we figure out very soon that people are responsible for 90% of their own problems, and we know that only they can learn their way out of creating more problems for themselves.

And we know that we are going to stop losing sleep over other people's problems, sooner or later, and we know how to accomplish that.

Yes we are evil motherfuckers, us crudbuckets. And the best part of it is that we learned how to be this way without the help of losers.

I have had bad times, I have been homeless. I am not going back. I know what caused it the first (the last) time and it is never going to happen again. Ever. I am just so terrible now, wanting to sit in MY livingroom and play MY guitar or piano. I am pure evil surfing this group and possibly helping someone ONCE who might actually derive something useful from MY words which I type on MY computer. I am just so evil and selfish there are no words for it.

Nevermind that I worked hard for it and thought my way out of my other problems.

Can't you see from my heartfelt words that the plight of these poor downtrodden people is all our fault ?

Maybe it's my current attitude that makes me so much of a softie right now :-) But I pretty much threw three people out of my life in the last few days.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing better than really helping someone. Talking about an issue they say "Damn, I never knew that, so I am not totally screwed". Something to that effect. But there are others, people who appear to listen but your most well thought out advice just goes out the other ear.

Dad used to say "People just keep making the same mistakes over and over", and now that I am 47, I can say that he was right.

But you owe. Yes you do. You owe your dependents, your creditors and maybe a favor here and there. You owe your children the very best you can give, and I don't mean possesions. You owe them your wisdom, and actually you owe every child on the planet the benefit of your experience, that is in advice and things like that. You owe honesty to those who are honest with you.

Have I covered everything ?

You do not owe anyone to fix a life that they fucked up. You do that because you want to. And you certainly do not owe anyone any advice they are not going to take.

T



DesFIP -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/20/2008 8:41:09 AM)

Tell him that he needs someone objective to help him and you aren't it. Then give him the number for AA, N.A., ACOA, the local mental health office, etc.

If you call back immediately, then he'll dump it all on you. If you wait a week before calling back, he'll have found someone else to dump it on.



popeye1250 -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/20/2008 9:16:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MladyHathor

Ouch----
 
My thanks to everyone who posted and to those who wrote on the other side ( I will respond to everyone in due course)---the greatest lesson, is to listen and not feel I am responsible for the solution---a lot of good advice--
 
 
as for Emperor---you missed a few points---if he was not My friend---I would not have loaned him money, let him crash at My place or saved him repeatedly---your damn right I made a comment about his narrow minded  parents, ---because I was the one who has made them come to the hospital when he was in such serious straights and when they were too ready to let strangers decide his fate-- if ever there were ostrichs, these people are it---as for being a homophobe--far from it---in fact a long way from it---I used the term gayness, I am sure in the wrong phraseology--it was an attempt to show one of the banners under which he makes bad decisions: " I am gay, I have no one, I am odd, so I will take the first willing, breathing subject that comes along"-- just like, " I am insecure, so I will take pills and numb the pain."
 
as for being a minister--I am human, and as such I need to understand that very humanity and that at times I stop helping someone by helping them too much. 


Mlady, and don't *ever* loan people money!
Just say, "Do I look like a fucking Banker to you?" "Is this a three piece suit I'm wearing?"
Users will *always* try to turn their problems into your problems!
And don't *ever* co-sign loans for anyone!
That's about being flim-flammed, not about "friendship."
I like to play games with them.
"Oh! So you don't care about me!"
"Boy, you got that right!" "Are you fuckin' PSYCHIC?" "Hey, go play the lottery!"
"Look Pal, I wouldn't give you two copper pennies to put over the eyes of your kid to bury him."
The conversation usually ends then.
I know guys in Boston who prey on people like that. They get *so much* "collatteral" up front that when the guy stiffs them they make out like bandits.
A ten to one ratio of collatteral to cash.
They need $1,000 they have to come up with $10,000 in collatteral.
And they charge them "points" by the week, "the vig."
"Oh, you need a loan? I know someone who'll loan you some money!"



Termyn8or -> RE: I am such a crudbucket (4/20/2008 9:29:39 AM)

I'm getting like you popeye, bailed a guy out of the jail, five hundred well over a year ago, he's been woprking it off and is down around two hundred, but the thing is, the money never came back and it is not likely to either.

Every year I live I get a little tighter, and I would never cosign for anyone but my sister. But then she doesn't need it, which is why I would, if someone needs a cosigner it is obvious that you shouldn't do it.

T



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