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RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 8:33:45 AM

Stephann

Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
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The real trouble with the mentorship discussion is that the assumption is there's a one-size-fits-all solution.

While living in Michigan, I felt like I was in BDSM hell. The nearest munch was an hour's drive away, and doubled as a Renn Faire gathering. The group simply didn't strike me as the sort of people I wanted to incorporate in my personal life. That meant, short of a four hour drive to Detroit, there really wouldn't be any public scene for me to participate in. The rules and structures of my D/s relationships wouldn't be influenced by other people, and there wouldn't be large numbers of successful, happy couples/groups to model. A mentorship situation just doesn't seem appropriate under such circumstances, since lack of any real social cohesion would result in slim pickings to find a mentor (for either a dominant or submissive.) It'd be like trying to find someone to teach me how to build windmills in Alaska.

Since moving to California, I've been exposed to a very large, well established BDSM community. We have a choice of no fewer than five dungeons to visit in LA, several munches, balls, and fetish groups. The 'community' is so large, diverse, and established, that having someone within that community who understands it better can provide valuable information and serve as a resource for someone who is new to, or unsure of, the lifestyle. I was fortunate to meet and become acquainted with some respected and knowledgable people.

In short, what worked in Greenville, Michigan, isn't necessarily going to even come close to working in Los Angeles, California. Not everyone has an interest in the public scene, not everyone desires a heavy focus on power dynamics of their relationship. I think the greater your interest in public play, or heavy emphasis on D/s or S&M in your relationship, the greater the value a mentor might hold.

Stephan

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Post #: 41

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 8:52:03 AM

SimplyMichael

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Stephan, this isn't directed specifically to you but as a general comment.

If someone were to ask me if they were being mentored or being fed a line and described any activities that included physical contact in a sexual or play context or were participating in any sort of D/s activities, I would tell them that they were not being mentored.

If you are fucking them or playing with them, you aren't mentoring them in my opinion.

I think you can make the case that doing those is training and thus there is need for trainers. However, since NOBODY trains as well as I do, all other trainers are incompetent as far as I am concerned.

(in reply to Stephann)

Post #: 42

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 8:53:20 AM

CalifChick

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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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The issue I am seeing arising is that some of us see the word "mentor" to be different than the word "teacher", and some of us don't. To each his own.

Cali

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Post #: 43

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 8:56:00 AM

subtee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
[snip]
However, since NOBODY trains as well as I do, all other trainers are incompetent as far as I am concerned.

How are those Humility Studies coming along?

Tee hee

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Don't believe everything you think...

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Post #: 44

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 9:04:30 AM

SimplyMichael

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I had hoped the sarcasm would be obvious as well as the point.

Who trains MY way? Nobody asked me for MY training standards! Thus they ALL do it wrong. Get it now?

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 45

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 9:10:27 AM

subtee

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Yes I got it, I was going for lil humor too...and paying attention:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Still looking for one that can help me with my overwhelming modesty.

[Edited to lower my gaze, clasp my hands behind my back and push out my boobs.]

< Message edited by subtee -- 4/17/2008 9:31:02 AM >

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Post #: 46

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 9:36:52 AM

Dnomyar

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subtee if your hands are behind your back I will push them out for you. I suppose that we are going to get a post on training standards now. Cali how come it is not to each her own. Mmmm I never thought that you were sexists.

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 47

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 10:06:05 AM

SimplyMichael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Yes I got it, I was going for lil humor too...and paying attention:

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Still looking for one that can help me with my overwhelming modesty.

[Edited to lower my gaze, clasp my hands behind my back and push out my boobs.]

Tee, what gets me hot is a whip smart woman who looks me in the eye and engages me in empassioned and insightful debate and THEN offers herself.

(in reply to subtee)

Post #: 48

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 10:10:35 AM

subtee

Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
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Oh. I was going for the protocol of the House of the 12th Order and whatnot...

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

When a submissive is introduced, the correct greeting varies according to the sex of the submissive. Females should arch their backs so as to present their breasts proudly but both lower their gaze and clasp their hands behind their backs. Males should simply turn their wrists so that the inside of the palms of the hands face inwards and press the wrists together as if bound.

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Don't believe everything you think...

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Post #: 49

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 10:39:42 AM

MasterKazarik

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Joined: 7/18/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

so... do you see value in mentorship? Is always good? is it always bad? or maybe it's good sometimes and bad sometimes?

I will say that I do see value in Mentoring others.. Is it always good or bad or a mix? I would say that you get as good as given.. If you have a Mentor who spends the time going over things, helping learn, be there answering questions then it is good.. Even more so if it is someone who is respected with in the community and is of good standing.. Then you have a good idea that the person being Mentored will hopefully be along the same lines.. I of course equate this to raising a child, but of course, just like raising a child, they have minds of their own and that may not mean they will be good.. Just a though..

quote:

when do you think it is good?... when do you think it is bad?

I think it is really good for someone new, or someone who just doesn't know or understand the lifestyles.. Its a chance to help get someone who is possibly making mistakes and providing them easy information to not make mistakes.. When is it bad? When you have someone new who tries to train others, someone with a lack of experience trying to help or someone who thinks they know everything but doesn't consider the consequences..

quote:

have you been mentored? do you want to mentor others? do you want to be mentored?

any other thoughts of mentorship in the lifestyle?

Yes I have been mentored.
When I entered the lifestyle at 18 I had a Master (Master Gregory from Florida) step up and offer to show me the ropes.. Things that I thought where common to the lifestyle, where wrong, and had I made those mistakes, it would of been bad. So yes, I think mentoring is good.

Would I want to mentor others?
Certainly. From past experience and seeing how it can benefit a person..

Would I want to be mentored?
You know, until recently I would of said no.. thinking that I was past that point.. But as recently being involved in a new group here in Edm, I would say yes.. Even after being in the lifestyle for 18 years, there is still new thoughts and new methods and things to learn..
Kaz

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 50

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 11:06:04 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Cali how come it is not to each her own. Mmmm I never thought that you were sexists.

Whatever gave you that idea? Maybe it needs to be beaten out of me (she says with an innocent look).

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 51

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 12:07:10 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Stephan, this isn't directed specifically to you but as a general comment.

If someone were to ask me if they were being mentored or being fed a line and described any activities that included physical contact in a sexual or play context or were participating in any sort of D/s activities, I would tell them that they were not being mentored.

If you are fucking them or playing with them, you aren't mentoring them in my opinion.

I think you can make the case that doing those is training and thus there is need for trainers. However, since NOBODY trains as well as I do, all other trainers are incompetent as far as I am concerned.

Exactly...which is why I stated what I did in my first post and my second post on here. Once intimate sexual touching occurs...to the point where the submissive is in the mindset of "my body is now yours to do with as you wish, Sir/Ma'am", then it is no longer teaching/training/mentoring re: teacher-directed/run BDSM play with elements of a D/s dynamic, it IS D/s-dynamic with play going on.

Ma'am Jay pointed out a difference...and I can go along with that difference to some extent...but fucking them or touching them in an intimate fashion that is deliberately designed to "teach" them about combining pleasure and pain is sexuality that fits a D/s dynamic, not a "mentor/mentee" dynamic.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 52

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 12:19:07 PM

ELUSIVE1

Posts: 536
Joined: 9/11/2005
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I was mentored by a well known long time "Master" here in the local area...I still call him up for advice sometimes, all these years later..he mentors many...I consider him and his wife, the whole entourage that surrounds him a treasure...He will refer some newbies to call me if they have any questions, but I really don't like mentoring because my lifestyle choices are certainly not the main stream or for everybody..

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Post #: 53

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 4:50:11 PM

Sandyshores29718

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Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Good point Ma'am Jay...and I will concede that the touching you describe...while definitely of body parts is not sexual in nature. Perhaps I should have clarified by turning my statement into a question about what type of touching she was referring to. I can only defend myself by stating that her own statements about the touching leading to a feeling of her body not belonging to her any longer but belonging to him would indicate...to me, not necessarily anyone else...that the touching was of a more sexually intimate manner. And I should have asked her to clarify that before I stated it.

Yes He spanks me, yes He fingers me. The whole Mentor part just kinda happened. i call Him that cause well thats how i feel about Him. Hes a playmate of a kind that i can also ask questions and respect a great deal. There are a lot of different kinds of mentors. i have a few mentors online also that are wonderfully smart people. A slave, switch, and a few Doms are what i would call mentors to myself. The term mentor for me is someone that i can look up to, respect, and learn from. i'm feeling like i'm having to fight for what i feel is right for me. *wipes brow* My first scene those thoughts entered my mind, after that they haven't cause i wont allow myself to go there. More so now i'm testing out things and finding my limits. Again this is for me. There are no set rules and what works for some doesnt for others.

< Message edited by Sandyshores29718 -- 4/17/2008 4:51:26 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 54

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 5:02:13 PM

marieToo

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Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline

In general I'm not really an advocate of bdsm "mentorships", however, sometimes when I'm involved in a relationship, I can lose my sense of navigation. I can get confused sometimes between submission and reaching a point where I am caving in to things that are costing me my self-respect. I consider myself a pretty sharp and very intuitive person, but I can't help but sometimes lose myself when I'm deeply submitting to someone, because I feel like I'm just too 'close' to it. There have been times when I have seeked out the counsel of someone who I admire or respect to help center me or to help show me another angle or to just validate me. I don't know if I'd call that mentorship or friendship, but like, yeah, I'm not so great that I can't admit that I've needed help at times.

Oddly enough, no one that I've turned to for advice ever tried to fuck me. I guess it's like picking out a doctor or a mechanic or anything else, you have to choose someone that you know isn't going to exploit you.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 4/17/2008 5:06:36 PM >

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marie.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 55

RE: Mentorship!? - 4/17/2008 5:09:15 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I was mentored when I started out. She wanted to be more than just Mentor/mentee, but I wasnt interested in that. She understood that I had no interest in switching to be involved with her and she couldnt be in something equal. I did learn quite a bit from her, though I did not pick up quite the sadistic streak she had hoped to build in me.
I have mentored boys and girls, Dom and sub, over the years. I have gotten into relationshps with some of them, and not with others. I never had sex with them as part of their mentoring. What they wished to learn was separate from our interactions. If they moved on to serving me, then there might have been sex. Some of the ones I mentored did eventually serve me for a time. Some did not, they learned and they moved on. I never slept with any of the Doms I mentored.

DV

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VampiresLair

(in reply to marieToo)

Post #: 56

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