RE: The Return of Big Government?

RE: The Return of Big Government? (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:16:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Do you feel the "fascistic" parts are worth the good? Is it a fair trade off? And I see your point about NZ and HK. It can be argued either way... imagine this: in Switzerland, citizens have to advise local government when they move houses. People regularly denounce their neighbours for hanging their laundry outside of apartment buildings (it's illegal in certain urban areas). Delation is rife. So it's got its downside, definitely.

Level -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:17:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp people are scared of the answer...Taxes. Funny that people don't seem to realize the tax money spent in Iraq would cover alot of stuff we need over here...like i dunno...Social Security could've been fixed, or healthcare, or education, so that future generations, unlike alot of the posters on this site, wouldn't spell phonetically. (sorry but THAT one depresses the fk out of me) [8D] yur so rite!** quote: Taxes pay for the stuff we need. It seems though that those who "have" don't want to be taxed to help the "have nots". Don't get me wrong, i hate to see people using food stamps in line before me at Publix, dripping in gold jewelry and loading their groceries in a new Escalade with $5000 rims, while i budget and plan and save and drive a "green" car, or that i pay taxes so that section 8 recipients have better houses than i do. But i keep in mind for everyone that takes advantage of the system, there are kids who really need the system to be in place, just in order to eke out an existence. Sure, there are people like that, and I understand those that say "I worked for this, what right do you have to take so much?", but I also believe that we, as a nation, are a community of sorts, and that the individual benefits from the whole.... so we all need to help one another. To what degree seems the biggest sticking point.

Level -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:19:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: Level Do you feel the "fascistic" parts are worth the good? Is it a fair trade off? And I see your point about NZ and HK. It can be argued either way... imagine this: in Switzerland, citizens have to advise local government when they move houses. People regularly denounce their neighbours for hanging their laundry outside of apartment buildings (it's illegal in certain urban areas). Delation is rife. So it's got its downside, definitely. When they move from house to house, or actually move the house? Because there are laws here, for that.

Level -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:20:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Yes Poppy, I know you want the USA to live in autarcy as if it were completely alone in the world. Truth is, it can't, because it depends on the rest of the globe. Do you know the term "United Nations" was suggested by Roosevelt? Do you realise the USA has a MASSIVE debt, arrears to the UN, that it refuses to pay? I think it's in the region of 1.5 billion bucks. Quite a lot of dough, isn't it? The USA are using the United Nations but refusing to pay for the privilege. Therefore your complaint rings hollow to me. I say we did enough for the world at large, that we should call it even [:D]. And then begin paying dues.

kittinSol -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:22:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level When they move from house to house, or actually move the house? Because there are laws here, for that. Just moving house. There are no mobile homes over there: the country's too rich for that. No underclass like here.

lronitulstahp -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:24:46 PM)
CH is lovely...my best friend and his wife live in Berne...and yes it's pretty strict and involved...but the quality of living is amazing. i think people have a hard time dealing with the fact that America isn't the global example...in fact for many, economically, we serve as a cautionary tale.

kittinSol -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:26:29 PM)
Level - why do you think the United States are still in the United Nations? Because it's necessary, they have no choice. They can't do without it, and the UN can't do without a major player like America. To imagine America can just say fuck you to the UN belongs to a realm of hardcore fantasy ;-p . It's just time to stop playing the ostrich game and to accept that you can't just walk away from something you have helped create.

Level -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:29:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Level - why do you think the United States is still in the United Nations? Because it's necessary, they have no choice. They can't do without it, and the UN can't do without a major player like America. To imagine America can just say fuck you to the UN belongs to a realm of hardcore fantasy ;-p . It's just time to stop playing the ostrich game and to accept that you can't just walk away from something you have helped create. I'm not so sure we couldn't wash our hands of them (and vice versa), but maybe not. However, I don't think we should. Despite being more fucked up than a 3-legged kangaroo at times, I believe in the spirit of the UN.

farglebargle -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:30:45 PM)
The spirit of the UN is good, but the implementation sucks. Of course, if they were an effective body, the US would have to destroy it. If the UN had their shit together, Bush wouldn't have gotten away with his crimes.

cloudboy -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:31:05 PM)
"Big Government's" rise is tied to the Reagan "Revolution," which completely unmoored the Republican Party from fiscal responsibility. The Reagan platform of excessive defense spending and tax cuts voided a whole political generation from having to make all the difficult choices about the federal budget. To wit: GWB funding a massive war machine without raising the taxes to pay for it.

farglebargle -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 5:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy "Big Government's" rise is tied to the Reagan "Revolution," which completely unmoored the Republican Party from fiscal responsibility. The Reagan platform of excessive defense spending and tax cuts voided a whole political generation from having to make all the difficult choices about the federal budget. To wit: GWB funding a massive war machine without raising the taxes to pay for it. Us Paleo-Cons call them "Country-Club Republicans" McCain's one of them, too... So's Clinton. Obama's in a separate-but-equal country-club, but never forget that if he wasn't "Their Kind of People" he wouldn't be in the Senate in the first place.

xBullx -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 6:40:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou hrmmmmm, wow you just blew my mind unless your joking, which is quite possible, but you didn't add a [;)] thingy on the end, so guessing you're serious. . Isn't the government responsible for most of what is haywire? Maybe we live in different countries or something, we are speaking of the U.S right? The country that intervened in Iraq, the country that has a Federal Reserve printing money left and right to intervene in saving the banks from going bankrupt by there own doing. The government of no bid contracts, and corporate welfare. I'm sure you could add to the list for me, I have seen your posts. LOL, that's the type of intervening you get when you allow a government to intervene all the time. Good lord, seriously, I can't understand why someone would trust a government that will lie, and steal, and kill, with finding solutions. Trully, I'm not even trying to be snarky, but to me it's like a woman(us citizen) having an abusive drunk husband(government), and then after taking a profound beating from him, (not in a good way, broken bones and all that), turning to the husband and asking him for marital advice in an earnest manner. What's up with that? Seriously, why do you trust the government to do so much right, when virtually everything in the modern era would indicate the government is working against you, not for you. In theory we could have a good government, that could be trusted, but we don't, and haven't for a very long time. This really is why I'm against socialism in the U.S. it's not that the theory couldn't work, but rather, we are led by some of the most morally defunct people on the planet. The theory doesn't matter, if those in charge are criminals. To clarify, I can't see ever being pro anything federal government, that's what I was refering to above with government. I'd find a much more appealing approach would be to stop taxing so much and giving so much power to the Federal Level, and let the local level tax, and fix there own back yard Anyway, point is federal involvement IMO, given past history should be reduced to the most minimal level possible, nothing will be solved giving hillary, barack, or McCain, the lead,. LOL. Oh, my I'm going to have nightmares. [sm=goodpost.gif]

subfever -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/12/2008 11:28:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 "Return?" When did it ever leave? Bingo... you beat me to the punch.

Aquilifer -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 4:56:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Kittin, we could do those things too if we stopped giving so much money to foreign countries, the "U.N.", foreign aid, aids in Africa, nation building, but then people like you would be bitching. I just couldn't care less about aids in Africa, we should have a national healthcare program in the U.S. instead. We're not the social services agency for third and fourth world countries. False meme. The total foreign aid budget for FY 2007 was 21.3 billion dollars. http://www.state.gov/f/releases/remarks2007/80092.htm. Also, see http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3255291,00.html A goodly chunk of this, 2.4 billion, was specifically earmarked for the support of Israel. We spent more than 5 times that much in the same calendar year on a foreign war that had been run aground by F. Paul Bremer and Donald Rumsfeld within the first six months after the initial invasion.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 8:02:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 "Return?" When did it ever leave? LMAO!

NorthernGent -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 8:03:08 AM)
The Return of Big Government Sounds like the sequel to a third-rate film.

sharainks -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 9:52:32 AM)
I always thought that for something to return it had gone away for awhile. That sure isn't what I've seen over the last 8 years.

Level -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 10:31:32 AM)
The Return of Bigger Government, then?

meatcleaver -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 10:55:01 AM)
General Point. Sometimes I just love this obsession with 'big government' rightwing Americans have, as though raising taxes to pay for debt incurred by a war or to provide for the poor is evil but don't see imperial jollies that kill thousands of innocent people an evil and a product of big government of the most corrupt kind.

Zensee -> RE: The Return of Big Government? (4/13/2008 11:04:08 AM)
Big Government is the same kind of nebulous, undefeatable enemy as Terrorism. The less definable it is the more frightening it becomes. The USA is large, any organisation intended to manage its affaris MUST be large as well. It must have the scope and powers necessary to do its job. What would people prefer? Unelected government in the form of Big Business? (Yes, I understand the irony of this term in context of my point.) What scale of political and business forces dragged them into this war of lies and vague enemies? It wasn't some local schoolboard. It was something rather Bigger. Z.

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