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Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 6:19:06 AM   
Sanity


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Here's an interesting article. It seems that in many ways, the feel-good rush to go green is doing far more harm than good.

At least Al Gore's making a nice profit, though!

quote:

"Veterans of the diaper wars know that environmental costs aren't always what they seem....power to run the washer and dryer for cloth diapers, not just the landfill impact of disposables, for instance. (Cloth comes out only a little bit ahead; it's a clear winner if you run your appliances on sun or wind.)"

"In the United States, almost all ethanol comes from corn. When you tote up the carbon emissions caused by clearing land to grow corn, fertilizing it and transporting it, corn ethanol leaves twice the carbon footprint as gasoline."

"...if your utility burns dirty coal inefficiently, hybrid electrics are worse. If you plug in at night, when most people do, you'll also be using more coal-generated electricity."


(Click here to read more)


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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 6:22:04 AM   
kittinSol


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A militant's a militant, it doesn't matter which side of the spectrum they're coming from.

Been to many demos yet :-) ?

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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 7:06:01 AM   
meatcleaver


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Fuel made from crops has been known to be a load of shite since before anyone grew crops specifically for fuel. Fuel crops are just avoiding the issue.

As for using electricity at night and that being coal generated electricity, that is an infrastructure problem and not a problem of conservation.

The real issue behind many problems in people wanting to conserve energy and the environment is that there is nothing to be gained by self serving politicians who take their pay from cynical, corrupt and greedy capitalists corporations.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 4/8/2008 7:09:18 AM >


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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 9:11:21 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Here's an interesting article. It seems that in many ways, the feel-good rush to go green is doing far more harm than good.

At least Al Gore's making a nice profit, though!

quote:

"Veterans of the diaper wars know that environmental costs aren't always what they seem....power to run the washer and dryer for cloth diapers, not just the landfill impact of disposables, for instance. (Cloth comes out only a little bit ahead; it's a clear winner if you run your appliances on sun or wind.)"

"In the United States, almost all ethanol comes from corn. When you tote up the carbon emissions caused by clearing land to grow corn, fertilizing it and transporting it, corn ethanol leaves twice the carbon footprint as gasoline."

"...if your utility burns dirty coal inefficiently, hybrid electrics are worse. If you plug in at night, when most people do, you'll also be using more coal-generated electricity."


(Click here to read more)


The full, in context, quote:
quote:

Even hybrid electric cars aren't a clear plus. If your outlet gets its juice from the standard U.S. electricity mix (half of which is generated by burning coal), hybrid electrics emit half the greenhouse gases as standard gasoline cars. But if your utility burns dirty coal inefficiently, hybrid electrics are worse. If you plug in at night, when most people do, you'll also be using more coal-generated electricity.

Quite a difference the whole quote makes. The choice of whether a plug in hybrid is the way to go is to check into whether your local electric utility generates/buys power from plants that burn low grade coal. Which as te above quote indicates isn't that common, i.e. not the standard in the US.

Dumping ethanol, the crux of the article, isn't particularly controversial inside the environmental movement. Ethanol is being championed primarily by the corn growers/processors and the energy independence advocates.

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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 9:12:52 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


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Quiet!  I'm trying to sell carbon credits here!

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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 2:27:38 PM   
Sanity


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No, actually the crux of the article is, do your homework. It was written by a Green for Greens, you see, and she's saying that not everything that seems green is green. Before you buy a tomato, do a month's worth of research. Ask ten thousand questions. Become that tomato.

Aummmmmmmmmm.

Aummmmmmmmmm.

Aummmmmmmmmm.

Was the tomato grown twenty miles from where you live, under energy intensive greenhouse lights? Was it trucked to market in an 8 mpg pickup? Or was it grown under the sun, and brought in from Mexico on a 400 mpg train.

We must be very careful with every single step we take, because we can't afford any more huge mistakes like the ethanol blunder.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKenQuite a difference the whole quote makes. The choice of whether a plug in hybrid is the way to go is to check into whether your local electric utility generates/buys power from plants that burn low grade coal. Which as te above quote indicates isn't that common, i.e. not the standard in the US.

Dumping ethanol, the crux of the article, isn't particularly controversial inside the environmental movement. Ethanol is being championed primarily by the corn growers/processors and the energy independence advocates.


< Message edited by Sanity -- 4/8/2008 2:28:01 PM >


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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 3:18:55 PM   
DomKen


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Title:
quote:

Sounds Good, But ...

We can't afford to make any more mistakes in how to 'save the planet.' Start by ditching corn ethanol

Web page title:
quote:

Begley: Let's Ditch Ethanol


Beyond that the column does make the point that lots of stuff hyped as environmental has only been partially about global climate change. Disposable diapers wasn't originally about climate change but about reducing teh quantity of non biodegradable waste produced by people. A noble goal but not one directly related to global climate change. She then goes after recycling of disposable plastic bottles, another waste stream issue, which BTW her solution has some health isues, do not just buy a juice or soda or water bottle and keep refilling and using it. Buy a specifically made bottle that won't leach stuff into your beverages.

But the column's summary paragraph calls for increased government and international action on global climate change. Which I'm surprised to see you endorsing.

 

 

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RE: Green Follies, From Diaper Wars to Hybrids - 4/8/2008 3:46:06 PM   
MusicalBoredom


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The following is my opinion:
  • There is a finite amount of traditional fuel sources such as oil and coal.
  • The world population is rather large and saturated at the moment.
  • There is only so much land available producing food for the population.
  • We do need to be mindful of the consumption rate of our finite resources.
  • We do need to be mindful of our environmental effects.
  • There will always be people/politicians/industries that try to make a buck off of our needs (environment, homeland security, flood protection...) but their bogus or overstated claims don't mean the need isn't real.
  • If you want to save energy get off of your fat ass and walk instead of drive for some the errands you run (not directed and any poster at all. that is, the "you" is inclusive).
  • Hopping in a school buss sized SUV and waiting in line for 20 minutes at Starbucks to buy an organic coffee on the way to Walmart to buy eco-diapers is just plain silly.

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