RE: orientation decisions (Full Version)

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Corvidae -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 6:35:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Often, if enviromental conditioning changes, so can perspectives and sexual identity.  Sexual orientation is a matter of perspective from enviromental conditioning.  You aren't born gay or hetro.  You are born pansexual or omnisexual.  If it feels good hump it.  Getting a hetro to explore what would have been a normal phase of their sexual developement isnt so far fetched.

This is a matter of opinion. The nature vs nurture debate is still raging. Personally, I fall more on the side of nature (although I'm sure nurture does fit in there somewhere).You may have been born pansexual, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that nobody is born gay or hetero. For example, I had a friend in college who is gay (homosexual if you make that destinction, but he identiefied as gay, so I'll use that term for him). He grew up in a conservative household where being gay  was seen as a bad thing, so there definitely was no nurturing of his gayness. He was told that if he didn't become straight he would be disowned. They even sent him to a "reform" program, but he was unable to change his sexual orientation, so they disowned him, cut off his funding for college, and removed him from their will. His life would have been 100 times easier if he had been able to "convert," and at times he said he genuinely did want to change, but despite all that his sexual orientation wouldn't budge. And if I plopped him in a room full of cute girls and told him to go wild, I'm pretty sure he'd tell me to go fuck myself.
How I see nurture falling into the picture is in how we express our sexual orientation... what sort of labels we attach to our orientation, and how we express our identity as gay, straight, lesbian, queer, pansexual, bi, or whatever else.
However, I can only really speak for myself. So, I apologise to anyone who actually was able to change their sexual orientation at will (or at the will of another) for saying it isn't possible (in earlier posts). Just, in my personal experience, I have run across tons of people who desperately wanted to change their orientation, many of whom had outside factors pushing them to do so, but were not able. I have yet to run across someone who could genuiney change their sexual orientation. I think it is dangerous to say that anyone can change. However, I made the same mistake in saying that no one can change... so, my bad. 



Justme696 -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 6:35:24 AM)

quote:

because my heart was broken by a female once and He wants me to fill that void


so you are already bisexual?



ThunderRoad -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 9:44:04 AM)

As much as I'd like to say I changed my girl into a bi girl, the truth is that she always was, and I just chipped away the stone to reveal it.  Once she accepted it (came out of the closet to herself) then she was able to embrace it.



Stephann -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 9:56:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corvidae

I think it is dangerous to say that anyone can change. However, I made the same mistake in saying that no one can change... so, my bad. 


Again, the crux is in acknowledging that some people are more flexible than others.

I know a thing or two about trying to be yourself, and paying a high price.  I married a Japanese woman against my wealthy grandfather's wishes (he fought in the Pacific theater during WWII.)  The end price tag will cost me several million dollars when he dies.  I did it to be true to myself; something that carries a very real, tangible cost, and one I'd gladly do again.

Stephan



BeingChewsie -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 10:44:32 AM)

Hi Stephann,

Thanks for saying this. I was wondering how to word it. I have teetered between am I a lesbian? or am I bi? I choose to live my life as the property of a man but I'm not attracted to men. I'm attracted to R's dominance, his lifestyle and he is a great father for my um but there is no queston it is women that I am attracted too, that I look at, that I think about, never men...which R finds very handy :).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Well, if he turns you into a lesbian then by definition you won't love or have sex with him, only with other women.
Sounds more like he wants you to play with other girls a lot.


Tell that to the lesbians I've had sex with.

Being gay or lesbian might result from your sexual preferences, but they are lifestyle choices.  Choosing to live as a lesbian doesn't mean you must be homosexual; you can be bisexual, or even straight.  I've known two straight women who considered themselves lesbians; they prefered female relationship partners, not because they were sexually attracted to women, but because they had been horribly hurt by men and feared men more than women.

The swinging door is you have lots of men and women living 'straight' lives, when they are clearly (and blatently) homosexual.  They choose to have mates of the opposite sex for religious, familial, or other personal reasons.   Sexual orientation may certainly (and ideally) be influenced sexual preference, but they are hardly synonomous.




Wheldrake -> RE: orientation decisions (4/9/2008 11:04:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

I agree there can be a difference between relationship orientation and sexual orientation.
That would explain the GREAT number of men interested and craving "forced bisexual activity".
Sexual orientation vs. Gender preference!
You could add even "Situational Preference" when forced,encouraged, prompted, ordered, etc.
Thanks for breaking it down, Stephan. 


I think this is a very good way to look at the issue, especially if you do add "situational preferences" to the mix. For example, my sexual preferences and relationship preferences are both strictly heterosexual, at least with respect to egalitarian sex and egalitarian relationships. Throwing in the situational factor, I find the idea of forced bisexuality to be very erotic, whether in the form of being temporarily handed over to a dominant man or being ordered (by my mistress) to perform with another male slave. I'm really not sure how I'd feel about actually being the slave of another man, but fortunately it's a moot point because I belong to a woman and I don't think she has any plans to sell me.

For the record, my preferences have drifted a bit over the years. At one stage, I was basically revolted by the idea of any erotic contact with another male, in any context. Then, gradually, forced bisexuality started to creep into my fantasies. (With that said, I've never actually done anything sexual with a man, although I did once take a pretty good thrashing from one.)  So based on personal experience, as well as what I've heard and read about others, I'm convinced that sexual preferences are situational for at least some people, and that they can change (again, in at least some people) over time.



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