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Limits - 4/5/2008 8:27:20 PM   
pupofMoGa


Posts: 165
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		Limits are a topic discussed between anyone engaging in a relationship in wiitwd. As a submissive i was aware of limits when Mistress and i first met, where we discussed what limits were hard limits etc. Mistress and i have seen the changes i have gone through in the past three years. When we first met, there were a lot of things i would not even consider, such a hard limit to which i would be running out the door like Speedy Gonzales. Two of those limits was needles and branding. Three years ago i would have broken out of steel chain restraints if Mistress mentioned branding (tattooing) me. But now with Mistress coming, i am so excited about Her tattooing me with Her mark. There are a lot of submissives like how i used to be that would say : "i would never......" or something like that, but it is time to think, how will feel about it in three years? I am excited about wearing Mistress's mark because i know it would please Her, and if it pleases Her, then it pleases me. Now some people would worry about being branded with their Dominants mark in the event that in the future they are not with their Dominant, look to get married, or go other routes. Mistress and i have considered this and have decided to pick a design that will have a significant meaning to Mistress, myself, and those we know, but not to people outside of wiitwd.  To any other person, the tattoo will be just that, a tattoo. But to those who know the true meaning will know that it is Mistress mark of ownership that i am proudly wearing.

As time progressed, i have found change where i would have previously said "Never In My Life!". However, there might be new limits that Mistress might bring up in which i would have to go back and set as a hard limit. I would like to hear from the submissives if they have forgone their hard limit in order to please their Mistress. Then on the other side of the slash, Dominants, how far do You feel You can push without breaking. While on the subject, how important is it for You to push Your sub's hard limit and if it is then why? What does it do for You, what does it satisfy in You if anything.

I'm curious about what people have to say. What!!! Pups can be as curious as cats too. <looks innocently>

-pup

< Message edited by pupofMoGa -- 4/5/2008 8:53:57 PM >

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 8:29:41 PM   
metamorpha


Posts: 35
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Mine was engaging in a MFF threesome - I would never have considered it 4 months ago.  I'm still not thrilled with it, since I am not bi and have no lesbian leanings, but now I am at least ready to be submitted to it.  (Not thrilled, but willing)

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 8:45:34 PM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline 		My submissive and I have been together for three months.  During that time, I have gently pushed some of her limits, and W/we've discussed pushing others, but haven't actually pushed those, yet. 
 
I think there is only ever a relatively small amount of pushing past the current limits that can be done comfortably and/or safely.  Once the sub/slave has moved past those current limits, it takes a little while before that 'point past the old limits' becomes the new limits. 
 
Only then can the Dom/Master begin the process of pushing past those. 
 
It's kind of like moving from point 'A' to point 'B'.  That's not a difficult move to make.  The Dom/Master might even be able to push the sub/slave from 'A' to 'C'--but probably not from 'A' straight to 'D'.  Once the sub/slave has been pushed past 'A' to arrive at 'B' or 'C'--and the sub/slave is comfortable with 'C' as the new limit--starting to push past 'C' to 'D' is much easier to do, than trying to push from 'A' directly to 'D'.
 
And so it goes...  

< Message edited by Floggings4You -- 4/5/2008 8:48:07 PM >

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:02:00 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pupofMoGa

Limits are a topic discussed between anyone engaging in a relationship in wiitwd. As a submissive i was aware of limits when Mistress and i first met, where we discussed what limits were hard limits etc. Mistress and i have seen the changes i have gone through in the past three years. When we first met, there were a lot of things i would not even consider, such a hard limit to which i would be running out the door like Speedy Gonzales. Two of those limits was needles and branding. Three years ago i would have broken out of steel chain restraints if Mistress mentioned branding (tattooing) me. But now with Mistress coming, i am so excited about Her tattooing me with Her mark. There are a lot of submissives like how i used to be that would say : "i would never......" or something like that, but it is time to think, how will feel about it in three years? I am excited about wearing Mistress's mark because i know it would please Her, and if it pleases Her, then it pleases me. Now some people would worry about being branded with their Dominants mark in the event that in the future they are not with their Dominant, look to get married, or go other routes. Mistress and i have considered this and have decided to pick a design that will have a significant meaning to Mistress, myself, and those we know, but not to people outside of wiitwd.  To any other person, the tattoo will be just that, a tattoo. But to those who know the true meaning will know that it is Mistress mark of ownership that i am proudly wearing.

As time progressed, i have found change where i would have previously said "Never In My Life!". However, there might be new limits that Mistress might bring up in which i would have to go back and set as a hard limit. I would like to hear from the submissives if they have forgone their hard limit in order to please their Mistress. Then on the other side of the slash, Dominants, how far do You feel You can push without breaking. While on the subject, how important is it for You to push Your sub's hard limit and if it is then why? What does it do for You, what does it satisfy in You if anything.

I'm curious about what people have to say. What!!! Pups can be as curious as cats too. <looks innocently>

-pup


pup,
It has a lot to do with trust. 3 years ago, you didn't have the total trust in me that you have now. I am so thrilled that you are going to wear my mark. I don't know what made me say I was going to mark you, knowing it was a hard limit, but I did. It wasn't a question either. I said "When I get there, I want to take you someplace to have my mark put on you" and you just agreed. So easy! I thought you would whine and say no, like you have done in the past or just say "Hard limit" and let it go. I am proud of you. I am even more happy that we will be able to share this with my good friend Lady Hathor. She is just as excited as I am about this lol

Metamorpha,
One of the things I would like to have is a threesome with pup and another male, pup has flat out said it was a hard limit. Over time, it may not be a limit, and a gentle push by me may bring wonderful results. I suppose we never know if those limits set in the beginning are still hard limits, unless we do push them.

MoGa

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:04:05 PM   
softpjOS


Posts: 398
Joined: 6/7/2005
Status: offline 		hi pup 
 
Amazing how things change over the course of time huh. 
 
I do recall that impossibly long list of activities that i filled out many years ago, many things getting a huge ?? beside it as i had NO idea what it was.  Others getting a really big NWIH (no way in hell) beside it! 

One such activity being fisting.  I thought, you've got to be kidding me, nobody in their right mind..... until one day Mistress decided to push a bit to see how i'd react.  Today i consider it a reward.  Crazy huh. 

On the flip side, i never realized how strongly i'd react to being around others that were nude, say at a play party.  I get extremely uncomfortable real fast.  Mistress has actually seen a physical effect, She removed me from one party because She was concerned i was going to pass out, guess every bit of color was gone from my face and She noted a "glazed look" come across my face.  And today being at any activity that includes nudity is heavily discussed and She watches me very closely for any extreme discomfort, we've pretty much decided it's a new limit but one She does wish to explore and find a way to get me past it....slowly.  And to think, this was something i never dreamed would cause me any problems. 

I guess it just comes down to the fact that we all change over time.  Our trust and comfort with our partners grow and we find ourselves testing waters that were once considered off limits.  Personally, i do not see these as "hard limits" as the only hard limits i truly have that She would NEVER cross are ones that we both find morally wrong. 

Ok, at the time i saw fisting as a pretty "hard" limit, and truthfully would have run screaming the other way if She had even brought it up; but it wouldn't have been a "Deal breaker".  It was simply something so far outside of my comfort zone, and i was completely upfront about that from the start.  In turn She waited, slowly tested the waters and introduced me to similar play to ease my fears.  As such, today it is something i absolutely look forward to. 

As for the tattoo, i suprised Her by having mine altered to include Her initials.  We had been discussing branding or possibly a new tattoo for me and one evening i had Her son at the tattoo parlor getting his first one and decided to have mine touched up.  She was a bit concerned about marking me and that was my way of showing Her that i was indeed ready.  Now i eagerly await Her decision on "Her" mark for me :)

hugs and good luck with the tattoo!!  I'm sure it will come out wonderful :)

pj

 

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:04:20 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

It's kind of like moving from point 'A' to point 'B'.  That's not a difficult move to make.  The Dom/Master might even be able to push the sub/slave from 'A' to 'C'--but probably not from 'A' straight to 'D'.  Once the sub/slave has been pushed past 'A' to arrive at 'B' or 'C'--and the sub/slave is comfortable with 'C' as the new limit--starting to push past 'C' to 'D' is much easier to do, than trying to push from 'A' directly to 'D'.

 
Floggings4You,
Great analogy!
 
MoGa



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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:08:51 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

Pups can be as curious as cats too. <looks innocently>


If not more, my love. If not more!

MoGa


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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:21:48 PM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		Congratulations!!  This is a huge step for both of you, and I wish you all of the best.

I have gone into EVERY relationship saying that I wasn't going to wear any obvious marks from them.  The only exception I made was in a long term relationship we both agreed to tattoo the same shoulder with similar but different tattoos that have meaning only to us but look like cartoons to the world.  Now that we are broken up, that's a good thing.

I would gladly wear My Lord's mark where ever on my body he chooses for it to go.  We intend to design it together, and it will have meaning only for us.  It was me who initially presented the idea, and he who was initially resistant, ironically enough.  Now we are both excited, and looking forward to getting it done.

Again, my best of wishes to you both.  Happy tattooing!!!



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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 9:44:52 PM   
misbehavin


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/18/2005
From: Rubberboot, Alberta, Ca.
Status: offline
 
I used to say "I'd NEVER do that!!!"  a lot, in the first few months after my introduction to BDSM and all of it's fun. I had a bazillion hard limits. About three years ago, i redefined my limits, and their meaning. I still have a few hard limits. These are pretty much carved in stone. The rest.....? Well they are what i now call milestones. They are reserved for someone i have a longstanding and trusting relationship with. They will be markers of the depth of my trust in this person. If and when i encounter these milestones with the right person, they will most likely be greatly enjoyed. At the very least, there will be plenty of snorts and chortles, howls and gnashing of the teeth, in the effort.

mis                        
 
The true test of character is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we don't know what to do. John Holt
 
 

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RE: Limits - 4/5/2008 10:49:53 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Not important at all.

It's important for us to enjoy who we are and who we will become together.  If that happens to include things that push limits, if it happens to include pushing limits itself, then we go there.  If it doesn't, then we don't.

The actual concept of pushing limits is irrelevant though- and I find those who make it something specific to seek end up very burned out after awhile.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 4/5/2008 10:50:44 PM >

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 1:05:19 AM   
MsHonor


Posts: 55
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline 		We grow and change... Or we're wasting our time.

Similarly, life is a one shot deal.  Seeking and savoring experiences, gaining knowledge and wisdom, creating joy and growth and happiness, in yourself and in others... These are the "meanings" of life.  It's been said many ways, but in all but the most horrific examples, the things we did are never as great a regret as the things we didn't do.

I find that "I'll never..." or "I'll always..." tend usually to come from two types...  The first are those who are young enough (or inexperienced enough in a given area) to be secure in the certainty of innocence...  Like when they say "if you want to be an expert in a subject, read one book."  I don't worry about them... They'll usually grow.

The other type are those who have become so ossified that they are capable of no further growth.  Like Heinlein said, to remain young requires a cultivation of the ability to constantly unlearn old falsehoods.


For my own part... I operate in a way that may seem dichotomous.  I don't generally push a slave past limits they are genuinely uncomfortable with.  My goal is to expand them, not break them.  But, on the other hand, I generally won't accept a slave who makes too much noise and production about having all kinds of "hard limits".  It goes without saying that we all have our own definitions, but mine don't include slaves with pages of "hard limits"...   Only things they trust me not to subject them to without my own good reasons.

< Message edited by MsHonor -- 4/6/2008 1:16:04 AM >

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 2:29:34 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pupofMoGa
Dominants, how far do You feel You can push without breaking. While on the subject, how important is it for You to push Your sub's hard limit and if it is then why? What does it do for You, what does it satisfy in You if anything.



Hi pup, give that lovely Mistress a hug from Me :)

Firstly, a Hard limit is just that... a no-go area, it doesn't get pushed... but then the only hard limits in My Dynamic are the ones *I* set. It isn't about what she likes or dislikes, it is purely what would be HARMFUL. Given the one thing I don't want to do is cause My girl harm, anything actualy HARMFUL is a hard limit, wether she is phobic or has a medical reason OR My skill and knowledge in that particular area isn't good enough to assure avoiding harm.

So I am assuming you mean basic limits here rather than hard limits.

How far can I push? How long is a piece of string? There is no set answer to a question like that, not only is every girl different but also how far You can take a particular girl changes dependent on so many factors. In action however it is simple... As far as I wish without causing harm. I read My girl constantly during play, I have taken time learning her, the level of play is rising as a consequence as I am better able to take her closer to the line between 'further' and 'too far' with confidence that I am not going to end up on the wrong side of it.

In My Dynamic she has to totaly trust My judgement and skill because she can't just 'safeword' out when she feels she has had enough (She does have a safeword to be used if and ONLY if she thinks I have missed something and she is about to take harm.... unlikely but it is there because I acknowledge I am only human. In all likelyhood it will never be used, but it is there.... just in case). Whilst not every s type would be comfortable in such a situation, to her it is very freeing, enhances the feeling of reliance and vulnerability. Reinforces that her life is totaly and utterly in My hands and deepens the emotional effect of the play.

As for if it is important for Me to push her limits? I Own her, all of her, I enjoy extending her, exploring her, taking her through different experiences both physical and psychological, helping and shaping her growing in may ways, just just in play. Watching her change, develop and blossom, watching her discover new passions, overcome fears, or simply revel in the mutual pleasure such activity brings... who could fail to enjoy such? :)


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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 3:08:42 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I respect hard limits with out any discussion. But as the OP said..people change in time and with different partners you change also.
Sometimes you talk together and limits are discussed. Then  they pop up in a fantasy...and they turn you on...and the limit might not be so hard any more (but you are :P ).
In time there is also more trust in a relation what takes away fear...and therefor often also fear for some hard limits.

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 5:35:56 AM   
Floggings4You


Posts: 240
Joined: 12/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

It's kind of like moving from point 'A' to point 'B'.  That's not a difficult move to make.  The Dom/Master might even be able to push the sub/slave from 'A' to 'C'--but probably not from 'A' straight to 'D'.  Once the sub/slave has been pushed past 'A' to arrive at 'B' or 'C'--and the sub/slave is comfortable with 'C' as the new limit--starting to push past 'C' to 'D' is much easier to do, than trying to push from 'A' directly to 'D'.

 
Floggings4You,
Great analogy!
 
MoGa


Thank You. 

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 5:45:53 AM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Pup, I always inwardly chuckle at the limits people offer up to prospective partners. With all subs that have interacted with me I've had them initially fill in a checklist so that I can see where their interests lie, etc... upon completion I've seen a list of what they've considered 'hard' limits and have always said to them, "Ya know, as you get to know me and trust me, that list of hard limits will reduce, keep reducing until there is no emotional barrier between us and then you'll understand what D/s is all about". Reality was no different when he first came to me with a great list of hard limits. Not one remains. He has a problem with bi encounters, which was a firm 'no' initially and while he has still yet to experience one, knows that is something I will introduce him to in the future - when I feel he is ready to handle it and process it positively.

Most subs' hard limits seem to be listed out of ignorance. Instead of them being hard limits as such, they're generally areas they'd rather not venture into - ie they're stipulating what they will/won't engage in and I make it clear from the outset, the only person that does that is me.

Of the one that generally are hard limits these seem to be formed as a result of various issues they've had a problem with in their pasts, some of which have been become serious phobias. We all have our fears and I have a problem with any areas of a submissive's emotions that are kept from me. Lots of time, patience, understanding but a firmness in refusing to allow them to hold onto them has allowed us to work through them and eliminate them from our lives.

< Message edited by MissMorrigan -- 4/6/2008 5:50:15 AM >

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 6:57:37 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
quote:

  I would like to hear from the submissives if they have forgone their hard limit in order to please their Mistress. 


I think that sometimes the concept of limits, whether hard or soft, is a matter of interpretation.  I don’t have soft limits; I have a category titled “maybe someday”.
Things that I won’t do today but might do under the right circumstances are not considered limits in my mind.  Things I have not yet done but the idea scares me are not limits, but I would expect that we wait until enough trust has been developed before that happens.  Things I’m interested in but the dominant in question has never done before are not limits but I would expect him to learn from an experienced person first.  Things I have tried and don’t like but they are not harmful to me are not limits.
The few limits I have are all hard limits; no amount of time or trust is going to change my mind.
For a dominant to push my limits in any way would be a breech of trust.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again here:
When a dominant views a limit as a challenge it suggests to me that he/she does not give the submissive the benefit of self-awareness or give them credit for knowing what would be harmful.
My limits are there for a reason.  I am willing to discuss and explain my rationale.
If he persists and pushes those limits he invalidates what I know to be true about myself.  At that point it is less about my growth as a submissive and more about his carelessness for my well-being. 


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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 7:01:00 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I think if you give up a hard limit, it wasn't really that hard to begin with.

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 7:05:42 AM   
SirJohnMandevill


Posts: 546
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		My submissive and I are always open to trying new things. We're establishling limits by trial and error, e.g., in our impact play "thuddy" is good, "stingy" is not.
 
About the only hard limit she has right now is that I can't take away her cigarettes....
 
Les (Purveyor of Fine, Handcrafted Kink)

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 7:38:19 AM   
abcbsex


Posts: 478
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline 		Most of the hard limits I had before embarking on this journey with Alpha were simply fear of the unknown (anal play, for example). Now, I can't really think of a hard limit that would even apply to our relationship, because we've talked about my concerns, experimented lightly, made judgments on it, and proceeded according to those judgments. So I guess you can call it trial and error.

The one I just thought of was being bound in a restrictive position and being left alone. But I guess that's bdsm safety 101, and Alpha knows that.
-C

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RE: Limits - 4/6/2008 8:34:56 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		My hard limits haven't changed. They're things that are physically or emotionally dangerous to me, and my health problems aren't going to be magically solved because he orders it. Soft limits? It was always understood that if he could get me not to have panic attacks at the idea of something then he could go for it, with the proviso that he cannot expect me to be aroused by it. I'm willing to endure some things for him but I'm not going to lie and claim I enjoy it.

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