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Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 7:27:06 AM   
phoenix92901


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I recently read about Thomas Beatie, a transgendered male who's now pregnant.   Here's the link to the story:
 
http://advocate.com/issue_story.asp?id=52664

If I read this right, Thomas still has a vagina, uterus and ovaries.  Please forgive my ignorance but can someone explain what is the criteria to legally be considered a male?  By no means am I criticizing or bashing transgenders. I'm just really confused and curious.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:25:33 AM   
phoenix92901


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I found out the link doesn't work... sorry!!!!  Here's the story.
 
Oregon resident Thomas Beatie told the The Advocate that carrying a daughter for his wife, Nancy, and himself was an "incredible" experience.
But a Portland television station that has been investigating the story has questioned the veracity of Mr Beatie's claims.
"Quite frankly, I think it's a hoax," Mr Beatie's neighbour Ron Schlieper told KATU. "I saw him a few days ago and he didn't look like that." Mr Beatie was pictured in The Advocate with a protruding belly. 

Mr Beatie, born a woman, has had a chest reconstruction and testosterone therapy, but decided to keep his female reproductive organs.

When Nancy had to have a hysterectomy due to severe endometriosis 20 years ago, the couple started thinking about Thomas carrying their child.

"I stopped taking my bimonthly testosterone injections. It had been roughly eight years since I had my last menstrual cycle, so this wasn’t a decision that I took lightly," Mr Beatie said.

"My body regulated itself after about four months, and I didn’t have to take any exogenous estrogen, progesterone, or fertility drugs to aid my pregnancy."

This is Mr Beatie's second pregnancy. The first was an ectopic pregnancy with triplets.

"It was a life-threatening event that required surgical intervention, resulting in the loss of all embryos and my right fallopian tube," he said.

"When my brother found out about my loss, he said, 'It’s a good thing that happened. Who knows what kind of monster it would have been'.”

Mr Beatie said he and his wife had begun experiencing anger from people offended by their decision.

"Doctors have discriminated against us, turning us away due to their religious beliefs. Health care professionals have refused to call me by a male pronoun or recognise Nancy as my wife," he said.

"Receptionists have laughed at us. Friends and family have been unsupportive; most of Nancy’s family doesn’t even know I’m transgender."

Mr Beatie said his identity as a male remained "constant" despite his growing stomach.

"...I am so lucky to have such a loving, supportive wife. I will be my daughter’s father, and Nancy will be her mother. We will be a family," he said.


< Message edited by phoenix92901 -- 3/30/2008 9:26:30 AM >


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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:27:32 AM   
sirsholly


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my first thought...this is going to be one much loved baby.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:30:35 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


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he's not legally a mr until all female parts are gone...just as a man is not legally a female until the penis is changed.

unless he's rich and paid lawyers to do it..money can buy anything.  this would include some sort of psychiatrist signature as well.  but those sig's usually are for actual SRS (sexual reassignment surgery) which he hasnt had.


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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:35:31 AM   
DesFIP


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Transgendered means you identify as the opposite gender from the one you physically are. People have the feelings of being in the wrong body before they go through hormone therapy and/or the operation. So he is a pre-op MtF transgender who chose to stop his hormone therapy while he went through pregnancy. Afterwards, I imagine he'll resume his hormones and they'll choose formula, non breastfeeding.

I wonder if they asked a friend or if he went to a sperm bank.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:38:38 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


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he's pre-op female to male....  not male to female...ive never known a male to female to get preg!!! LOL!


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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:41:35 AM   
Deliena


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But think of the cash the first one will make selling the story to the tabloids! LOL

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/30/2008 9:45:41 AM   
domahpet


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i read somewhere once about a (born)man that somehow had an embryo implanted in his stomach cavity and was able to carry it. sorry i dont have the link any more, but it also said he had to take hormones to be able to carry the child and was able to produce milk. i wonder if this mans wife would be able to take *whatever it was he took* and produce milk as well?
question, if the man in the op is married to a (born)woman, whered the sperm come from?
*sigh* guess ill have to clink the link

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/31/2008 6:25:27 PM   
phoenix92901


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I read about that as well... the man's name is Lee Mingwei, the baby hasn't been born yet and apparently he's doing this as some sort of art project.  I could be wrong but that's the impression I got from the website which is www.malepregnancy.com.
 
I really try not to be judgemental but I can't wrap my head around that.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/31/2008 6:48:35 PM   
DesFIP


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

he's pre-op female to male....  not male to female...ive never known a male to female to get preg!!! LOL!



Damn faery, you're right, I got it backwards. I was just trying to explain that he's a pre-op tranny.

Which reminds me, when my daughter went off to college, the stuff for dorm assignments asked for sex, circle M, F or T. She had to ask me what the T stood for, but I was curious as to why they weren't asking MtF or FtM. They can't be shoving MtF's in with FtM's or can they?

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 3/31/2008 10:07:24 PM   
faerytattoodgirl


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then that leaves me out...cause i am an I = intersexed.  so what do i do...put both M and F? i think that would confuse them.

i never went to school anyway. 


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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/1/2008 11:27:49 PM   
lostsoulskitten


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Umm... wow.. I (Kitten) just read it, and I am very confused. Maybe it's my age that makes me so confused. I don't get it. This Mr. Person is pregnant (supposedly) but it is a female wanting to be a man?

Someone please unconfuse me some how..

lol.




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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 12:01:26 AM   
saradeanna469


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

he's pre-op female to male....  not male to female...ive never known a male to female to get preg!!! LOL!



When I do, I'll let you know.  I've been trying like hell.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 12:14:24 AM   
saradeanna469


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quote:

Umm... wow.. I (Kitten) just read it, and I am very confused. Maybe it's my age that makes me so confused. I don't get it. This Mr. Person is pregnant (supposedly) but it is a female wanting to be a man?

Someone please unconfuse me some how..

lol.


No, it definitely isn't your age.  There are people much older than you that had sex changes before you were born.  Anyway... the person this thread is about was born female, but doesn't think of himself as female... so he's been living as a man instead of a woman. Sort of like me except opposite, I was born male, but do not desire to live my life or ever be thought of as male.  Sure, right now I am equipped with everything I need (except desire) to get a genetic female pregnant... just like the man carrying the baby still has famale reproductive organs.  It's that simple :)

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 12:16:55 AM   
saradeanna469


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Which reminds me, when my daughter went off to college, the stuff for dorm assignments asked for sex, circle M, F or T.



They do that now?  I've been wondering how long it would take for that to happen somewhere.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 4:44:11 AM   
lostsoulskitten


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I think I get it.. >_<; Maybe. Okay let me see if I got this.

This Mr. Pregnant Daddy person is a female, but doesn't like to be a female.. so it is a male?

>_<; Am I right?


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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 4:54:49 AM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lostsoulskitten

I think I get it.. >_<; Maybe. Okay let me see if I got this.

This Mr. Pregnant Daddy person is a female, but doesn't like to be a female.. so it is a male?

>_<; Am I right?



Yeah, The person was born a woman, and still has woman parts, and has stopped taking hormones to make him/her more manly. Thus in my view has biologically reverted to full female functioning. This story isn't really anything more than a woman got pregnant, after they stopped taking hormone treatments.

I don't even see why this is a news story really. Basicly it boils down to a woman got pregnant. The person still has a vagina, a uterus, etc... so biologically this is a standard pregnancy. It's just the pregnant party has for a long while before taken hormones to make them look more male, and the person says they want to be male.

Either way, it's a non-story. Nothing new here.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 5:10:19 AM   
aviinterra


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quote:

It's just the pregnant party has for a long while before taken hormones to make them look more male, and the person says they want to be male.


Bold lettering is my addition for emphasis. If one feels so strongly that one wants to be male, then why would you also want to be pregnant- the very essence of being female - esp. since they have a female partner? There is no mention of infertility issues in the article, so should not the 'woman' be carrying ? This very act seems to fly in the face of this person's supposed need to be a male, and to me at least, it makes them look like they are very confused. There should not be a middle ground- either you feel male or female, not switch back and forth. Otherwise the choice of sex becomes like a choice of handbags, depending on the mood of the day.

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 5:40:51 AM   
LadyEllen


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What I cant fathom is how he became pregnant after taking hormones for such a time; this from discussions I've had with two FtM individuals who informed me that they had taken the hormones for only 2-3 years, the effects of which were not only the stopping of monthly periods but also serious irreversible decline in the condition of the uterus, to the extent that hysterectomy was required. Still, I guess like all things human, there is nothing universal.

For me doing the reverse it was explained to me that taking the hormones would cause irreversible changes (which may or may not be described as damage, dependent on point of view). It would be interesting to find out if this is true, but I'm not going to stop the hormones however interesting it might be!

And just to add a curious story about another MtF. She had been on hormones for some years like me, and everything was fine. Until one day she was caught up in excruciating pain in the lower abdomen. At the hospital they diagnosed appendix trouble as one might expect, but on opening her up the appendix was perfectly fine. The pain was from a twisted fallopian tube - whether it had always been there and had developed because of the hormones or whether it was new tissue grown as a result of the hormones remains unclear to this day, but out it came nevertheless.

E

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RE: Pregnant Dad - 4/2/2008 6:25:12 AM   
aviinterra


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Thanks for the info, LadyEllen. I guess if you don't want to be female, 'damage' to the uterus or fallopian tubes will not be seen as such a negative thing, but rather as another step toward becoming male. Taking into consideration your info on the changes caused by the hormones, this story just smacks of the pregnancy being planned. I have no problem at all with individuals seeking a sex change, I just think that if you so strongly feel that you are the opposite sex, you would not feel inclined to go back to the original. 

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