Ranting? (Full Version)

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HerLord -> Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:36:28 PM)

OK. I am guilty.

We all are to some degree or another. Some use these forums. (guilty again) I have been known to go off on a tangent and lay it out for people. Sometimes my rants are tangible. Sometimes more abstract. I have said some very cruel things that are no less cruel by being true. I call'em as I see'm. It has struck me however, that sometimes afterward I see people coming to the defense of those I... attack? Is this largley a case of the motherly tending to the more feeble? Or does this represent a larger more personal edification of my "slamming"? 

I have the vice of honesty... to the point of brutality. I am known for my signature honesty which comes out at the worst moments. I do not pretty up truths to make them easier to hear. In fact, if you are not someone I like, I will find as painful a way to express the truth as I can. Just call it my nastyness.

Any way... almost forgot that I had to ask a question here.

How do you think when your rant gets stepped on by someone elses compasion. Have you ever felt the need to continue the rant onto the newly found defenders of idiocy? Or are you the type to say what you have to say and then bow out? I tend to fall more here, unless provoked.

Then again... there is also the rant that is really more of just getting thoughts out that are triggered by something someone does but aint really about that person or what they did. After these rants, do you wish to have open discussion, or are you then done?



Level -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:42:13 PM)

I rarely "rant" at anyone in particular, so I don't see anyone defending others against me, but if it were to happen, I would take a step back and see if I might be wrong, in some way.
 
If I do rant at something, then I don't mind a discussion over it.



sirsholly -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:45:05 PM)

If someone jumps an OP for typos (btw Herlord...it is spelled "compassion"...you have a typo in your rant)...
Or just making a statement that was so below the belt i am suprised a Mod has not pulled it...
You bet your ass i will speak up.




ChainedExistence -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:45:57 PM)

My grandma always said...You can disagree with someone without being disagreeable. Personally people who are nasty in the name of "honesty" are usually quite aware that they are trying to to be disagreeable. I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion or even your truth, but a "go for the jugular" type of comment tends to demean the poster in my eyes, and makes  it harder to consider their point of view. Sometimes I've agreed with a brutally honest appraisal of a situation, but felt bad for the other party for the sheer viciousness of the attack. I do know that I tend to have a peacemaker's heart and I hate to see anyone really hurting whether I agreed with them or not. 



HerLord -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:50:12 PM)

Level... Thanks for taking the time to translate my gibberish... I have found that I am increasingly less tolerant of "further discussion" as I get older. Once I have said what I have to say... I have said it. Further listening is as much as I can ensure. But I am grumpy and set in my ways. My opinion seldom altered, I just get through 1 rant at a time. As always, paying attention to my surroundings, (I'm not paranoid, THEY REALLY ARE out ta get me) and designing my environment, I must always be aware that I could be wrong, so I listen intently, to the responses to my words/actions, just to be sure the shooter aint around the magazine rack. LOL

I always read my threads to the last post, and try to follow any threads I post to untill It just starts pissing me off.



mzbehavin -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:55:44 PM)

Hmmm... maybe if you are just ranting to rant, you could mention that at the end of the post or mention no replies needed. Usually, from what i've seen on CM, when you post to the message board you are asking for peoples opinions on your thoughts/words.
If you dont want to hear anyone disagree with you, or defend a different point of view, then may i suggest using your journal?
Hope i understood the question correctly.



Level -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 4:57:37 PM)

HL, even if you do just listen, you're doing more than a lot of folks.



Real_Trouble -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 5:01:11 PM)

I simply try to be as objective and reasonable as humanly possible in most cases; I have found that following a few simple rules tends to keep me out of all kinds of trouble when arguing.

Namely:

- It's never personal, so don't suggest as much, and if someone else tries to get personal, either call them on it or ignore it.

- Always try to be objective and listen to the other side.  I always read what other people have written if I am going to respond, and I try to think through their point of view and understand their side of a discussion.  Thus, even if I end up disagreeing and ranting about it, I should at least know what I'm talking about and why I think I'm talking about it; I try never to fly off the handle widly.

- Don't back down when you think you are right if you want to stay in the discussion, but don't be rude about it.  Basically, you can be firm without being a degenerate moron.

- When you are wrong, admit it.  I've had times where I've changed my mind as a result of a discussion, or decided I am wrong.  If you lay that out when it happens, people give you a lot more credibility in the long run, because they know you aren't a fucking bullshit artist if you are supporting something.

I would suggest that if you find yourself grumpy, unwilling to change your opinion on things, and uninterested in further learning and discussion... that you should stay out of them entirely in the first place.  You will come across as a bitter and annoying curmudgeon if you just get on your high horse and refuse to listen or change.



windchymes -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 5:12:43 PM)

Mmmmm, nah.  When rant turns to pissing match, I move on.



HerLord -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 5:13:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble


I would suggest that if you find yourself grumpy, unwilling to change your opinion on things, and uninterested in further learning and discussion... that you should stay out of them entirely in the first place.  You will come across as a bitter and annoying curmudgeon if you just get on your high horse and refuse to listen or change.



I loved the entire quote but HAD to pitch in here on this.

I am those things.... who told? Is sirsholly telling on me?
With reality though... I listen carefully. I speak less restrictively. I am of the opinion at this point that, I can and should say ALMOST everything that I think. It comes from the honesty thing. I spent the better part of my growing up time trying to find ways to be acceptable to polite society. I have come to this point where I don't care who does or does not like me. I am going to tell you what I think, not so as to do anything for you, but because they are my thoughts, and I can speak them. If they are not liked... Who the hell cares? I am very polite to those deserving (in my mind), and seldom actually instigate "hostility".

But ask Stella, who took it like a champ, My bite is quick, but I come back with the neosporin and washclothes to clean up after myself, when I am wrong, or just plain too harsh. Thank you Stella. Again, my Apologies.



ModeratorEleven -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 5:27:35 PM)

Folks, please don't turn this into an excuse to attack the OP.

XI



SteelofUtah -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 10:37:25 PM)

I find it silly when anyone "Attacks" anyone on this board.

We were ALL Green at some point in time. Some people would say I am a Coddler and I want the whole world to live in perfect harmony, but in reality I just want to share with others what I would hope others would share with me.

Yes we come across childish posters and people who in our eyes "JUST DON'T GET IT" but there was a time someone saw US the exact same way.

This Superiority High Horse that some people get on just amazes the hell outta me because you gotta wonder first off how hard was it to ask the question in the first place and then they get tore a new one and so they stop asking and one say the REALLY SCREW UP Because they felt that ASKING a QUESTION was something that gets negative responce in this lifestyle.

HerLord this isn't about you because I don't read many of your posts, this is about the idea in general. I think getting high and mighty on someone is just a waste of time because if they do deserve it then do you think it's going to do any good anyway? And if the don't deserve it what is the long term effect on crushing someone for asking a question or making a point.

No, No one is responsible for the Newbies but just remember there was a time that we were new too and someone showed us a few things without making us feel stupid. Maybe we could pass on the compassion.

Steel



MissHarlet -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 10:53:56 PM)

I am more apt to rant about someone that asks questions on a thread and then has reasons why every bit of advice they receive wont work ... and everything they post is about "poor me" ... these OPs seem to be repeat thread starters but they all degenerate into .. the poor me thing .

Questions that seem genuine are always answered if I see them for I remember well that all of us were new once .........



Hippiekinkster -> RE: Ranting? (3/29/2008 11:50:42 PM)

Are you trying to say you don't quite get the concepts of tact and diplomacy? Hey, I get snarky and go off on folks myself from time to time. I have had it happen in my life, however, that someone I "gave a piece of my mind to", later was in a position to help me consideably. Oops! Burned THAT bridge.

It's easier to be "honest" on teh Interwebs, where there is actually nobody but yourself alive. Everyone else is a digital construct, a "bot" and bots don't have feelings.

"There is solemn satisfaction in doing the best you can for eight billion people. Perhaps their lives have no cosmic significance, but they have feelings. They can hurt.
" Heinlein



MissMorrigan -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 1:21:43 AM)

I appreciate straight talking and forthright honesty, I won't tolerate nastiness however it may be presented as it tends to stifle further debate and rapidly reduces to a slanging match. I do not understand why it is people feel the need (I see it LESS in real life, than I do with folks online so that's kind of telling, isn't it?) to go out of their way to be deliberately upsetting to another person - it's sheer bloody-mindedness (general comment, not aimed at you).

If I am ranting about something which, as you have pointed out, is something we all do to some degree, I appreciate others enabling me to put things into perspective, not that I ever lost it, even if it's to tell me to wind my head in or remove it from my arse. I like to debate especially on issues whose OP viewpoints I don't share and do try to see things from their own perspective - it won't change mine at all, but at least I have gained a better understanding of how others think/formulate their opinions. Threads I do avoid, those from people that are stuck in a perpetual cycle of patheticity, attention seeking and using the boards as a prop. It's not of any benefit to myself, them, or anyone else for me to respond.



HerLord -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 7:57:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Are you trying to say you don't quite get the concepts of tact and diplomacy? Hey, I get snarky and go off on folks myself from time to time. I have had it happen in my life, however, that someone I "gave a piece of my mind to", later was in a position to help me consideably. Oops! Burned THAT bridge.

It's easier to be "honest" on teh Interwebs, where there is actually nobody but yourself alive. Everyone else is a digital construct, a "bot" and bots don't have feelings.

"There is solemn satisfaction in doing the best you can for eight billion people. Perhaps their lives have no cosmic significance, but they have feelings. They can hurt.
" Heinlein

In a professional situation a have found Diplomacy. I have the ability, if not the will, to be tactful and courtious(sp).  As far as out of the professional world, no... I am a mean mother fucker. It is not always willfull cruelty, but cruelty none the less.
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

I appreciate straight talking and forthright honesty, I won't tolerate nastiness however it may be presented as it tends to stifle further debate and rapidly reduces to a slanging match. I do not understand why it is people feel the need (I see it LESS in real life, than I do with folks online so that's kind of telling, isn't it?) to go out of their way to be deliberately upsetting to another person - it's sheer bloody-mindedness (general comment, not aimed at you).

If I am ranting about something which, as you have pointed out, is something we all do to some degree, I appreciate others enabling me to put things into perspective, not that I ever lost it, even if it's to tell me to wind my head in or remove it from my arse. I like to debate especially on issues whose OP viewpoints I don't share and do try to see things from their own perspective - it won't change mine at all, but at least I have gained a better understanding of how others think/formulate their opinions. Threads I do avoid, those from people that are stuck in a perpetual cycle of patheticity, attention seeking and using the boards as a prop. It's not of any benefit to myself, them, or anyone else for me to respond.


I am glad I do not fall into this catagory of non responses. Your insight is appreciated on ALL the posts I have read which contain your pearls.

Yes I get nasty. SORRY. But only so much. I do try however to be open to listening to the reactions my "words" engender. Sometimes, (rarely) I am disuaded to alter what I have to say. Other times, (even more seldom) I am eventually coerced by my conscience to apologise.

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEELOFUTAH

I find it silly when anyone "Attacks" anyone on this board.

We were ALL Green at some point in time. Some people would say I am a Coddler and I want the whole world to live in perfect harmony, but in reality I just want to share with others what I would hope others would share with me.

Yes we come across childish posters and people who in our eyes "JUST DON'T GET IT" but there was a time someone saw US the exact same way.

This Superiority High Horse that some people get on just amazes the hell outta me because you gotta wonder first off how hard was it to ask the question in the first place and then they get tore a new one and so they stop asking and one say the REALLY SCREW UP Because they felt that ASKING a QUESTION was something that gets negative responce in this lifestyle.

HerLord this isn't about you because I don't read many of your posts,
and why the hell not?
quote:

 this is about the idea in general. I think getting high and mighty on someone is just a waste of time because if they do deserve it then do you think it's going to do any good anyway? And if the don't deserve it what is the long term effect on crushing someone for asking a question or making a point.

No, No one is responsible for the Newbies but just remember there was a time that we were new too and someone showed us a few things without making us feel stupid. Maybe we could pass on the compassion.

Steel

This wasn't so much about newbies as much as just looking for how others deal with ranting. Sometimes the ranting itself is just about getting generalised frustrations out. Sometimes it is about a specific issue or person.

All I know is, I piss off alot of people regularly. Don't much care myself, but it had been brought to my attention and thought it might be something that others could relate to or have questions about, hence the thread.

Does any one think that ranting itself is bad form and if so, how?

I get it, when done as I more often do it, it offends people and as MissMorrigan has put it, the nastiness puts people off, to the point of not reading further commentary from said poster.  I have often wondered that if I were to post my thoughts differently, if the reader(s) might take a look at the points made a bit more seriously than they do when I go off Full cocked. Either way... thanks all for the comments and time it took to read...
My copper is truly emptied now...



TracyTaken -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 8:31:31 PM)

I think it's mostly the nature of "text only" communication.  It's easy to get upset and to voice that upset without ever seeming to hurt anyone, not anyone who matters anyway - not anyone you'll ever meet.  If everyone were around a banquet table, it would be different.  It would definitely be less honest.  It would also be more palatable.  It's a trade-off.  It's not worth fretting about though.  [:)]

Sometimes I wish that everyone who answered here would pretend that the they were answering their baby sister (or brother).  I'd hate that though ... and I couldn't do it myself.  It would be boring; it would be so limiting that I wouldn't want to be here.  One of the great things about the "freedom" here is that you can be ramrod honest and not have to worry that you've really wounded someone, that it will take years of therapy and an act of a (non existent) deity to make them okay again.  It's words on a screen.  Each person assigns the importance and the power of whatever they read here, which makes it a clean way to communicate.  If that makes any sense ...



MontrealPhoenix -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 8:35:28 PM)

"I have often wondered that if I were to post my thoughts differently, if the reader(s) might take a look at the points made a bit more seriously than they do when I go off Full cocked."

YES! I find that often it isn't what you're saying as much as the way you say it that gets peoples' backs up. Tact is a good thing, use it and you may find people listening to what you have to say....



Termyn8or -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 9:27:12 PM)

This is a semi-jumpthrough.

"How do you think when your rant gets stepped on by someone elses compasion"

Although I am not a follower of Freud, I think this is a Freudian slip. But the essence of it, well it has happened to me. When someone returns kindness for nastiness they gain, and big.

The urge to defeat others is rooted in a place from which we cannot extricate it. It is part of our instinct. As humans we must control it, there is no need to stamp out the competition every minute.

I am all for rugged individualism, even beyond the point Ted Nugent practiced. But there are times you simply have to let go of that, and for that to happen you need to feel safe.

You never do, do you ? Well there is a stopgap measure that works for saome of us. It's called "I don't care right now". It does not mean that you do not care, just that you do not care right now.

I just wanted to say that, I'll be back after I read the rest of it.

T



kdsub -> RE: Ranting? (3/30/2008 9:28:31 PM)

HerLord...sometimes it is more important how something is said then the truth of the statement. There is no reason someone cannot make a point and be civil at the same time.

Now if attacked that is a very different situation.. but if you are perceived as unnecessarily cruel in your response then often others will come to that persons aid.

Butch



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