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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 4:31:20 PM

Griswold

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So....is your Mistress online?

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 4:52:22 PM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermitcrab

Am i completely wrong for feeling this is rude? Am i missing something? Is it truly acceptable for subs/slaves to be so obviously rude? How would you handle this?

No, you are not completely wrong for feeling that sort of behavior is rude. That said, to start a thread simply as a passive-aggressive attack on those same people is rather a rude thing for you to do. I'd suggest you try the direct approach. Email these 'culprits' and tell them how you feel and how you are effected by the behavior (or just send them a link to this thread). Better yet, tell them directly and in person when the behavior occurs. Express yourself in a clear, adult manner, then let it go. You've done what you've been able to do. My only other suggestion would be to do as your Mistress suggests and quit attending the functions. Unless and until you are willing to call people on their behavior, don't expect it to stop just because it bothers you. They don't know it bothers you .. so why should it stop? Your Mistress isn't handling the issue that way you desire, but it's not your decision, it's hers. Try to remember that as well.

Celeste

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 5:33:59 PM

MasterFireMaam

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Given the overall protocol of my "tribe", I can see how some things that are being done might actually be an attempt at respecting your Mistress. For example, asking how your Mistress is at the beginning of the IM. To me, they could be simply being mindful of your relationship and honoring it by giving reference to her first. She IS first, after all. Also, while I agree that it was rude to stand with their back to you, standing, rather than sitting, in the presense of a Mistress is proper in some circles.

However, the overall feeling of the post is one of frustration. Like most everyone else, their needs to be a good communication between you and your Mistress about your feelings. When you talk to her, focus on how you feel, not how she should change her actions. In the mean time, start trying to figure out WHY you feel this way? I sense possessiveness, which can be closely related to negative attachment.

My question is: are you willing to give up the idea they are trying to edge in on your territory in order to try and understand their real motivation better and have compassion for them, and yourself, for being human?

Master Fire

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 6:27:17 PM

atursvcMaam

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A number of years ago (please don't ask how many) when i was in the vanilla dating world, i would tend to date (not committed relationship or anything) women who were very attractive, out of my league as it were. i am a nice guy, bright, with a backhanded sense of humor, but was not terribly noticeable to the other men in the room, who might choose to approach the woman i was with no matter where i might be in the picture. i did several things that tended to ease my mind a bit.
        1. i always paid attention to whom the woman left with and went home with. that tended to ease my discomfort.
        2. i always kept a cold beverage in my hand. (although hot would work as well i guess.) i tended to become very clumsy if someone uninvited encroached on my personal space. i occasionally had to get someone a replacement drink, but they tended to step back to a safe distance. Honest it was always an accident. that is my story and i am sticking to it. However with bare skin, a cold drink does not need to be spilled, and most fellows will not stay near at hand with a wet beltline or below.
          3. if this looks intentional, you are likely destined to get into a fight, and, in my history, lose the woman. Even though it really was just an accident.
          4. if you tend to frequent the same groups, this reputation will start to get out and minimize your concerns in a short while, except that you will cause Mistress concerns with this sudden onrush of clumsiness.
          BTW, please remember that some toes were built to be stepped on. Good luck, and tongue firmly in cheek, How is your Mistress doing? Seriously...You appear to be very lucky in many ways, i hope that all goes well.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 6:34:44 PM

kyraofMists

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Yes, I have experienced something similar and yes, I consider it rude. However, I cannot control anyone else's behavior. I can only control my own behavior and how I react to the behavior of others. We also teach people how they can treat us. Your silence only taught them that their behavior was acceptable to you. For the person who sat down in your seat while you were away, you could have walked back and said "Oh, thank you for reserving my seat for me" or "keeping my seat warm". There are probably a dozen ways to politely let the person know that they have crossed a boundary, especially if you were instructed to sit in that seat. You could have also addressed your mistress and asked her "where would you like me to be?".

If you want your boundaries to be respected then you need to let people know when they have crossed them. Posting an anonymous rant about others is not protecting your boundaries.

Knight's Kyra

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 6:39:07 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
No, you are not completely wrong for feeling that sort of behavior is rude. That said, to start a thread simply as a passive-aggressive attack on those same people is rather a rude thing for you to do. I'd suggest you try the direct approach. Email these 'culprits' and tell them how you feel and how you are effected by the behavior (or just send them a link to this thread). Better yet, tell them directly and in person when the behavior occurs. Express yourself in a clear, adult manner, then let it go. You've done what you've been able to do. My only other suggestion would be to do as your Mistress suggests and quit attending the functions. Unless and until you are willing to call people on their behavior, don't expect it to stop just because it bothers you. They don't know it bothers you .. so why should it stop? Your Mistress isn't handling the issue that way you desire, but it's not your decision, it's hers. Try to remember that as well.

Celeste

I should have just read the entire thread and said "ditto" to Celeste's post....

Knight's Kyra

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 8:33:11 PM

AtlantaMistress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hermitcrab
Yes, i have spoken to Her at length about this. HER response was to just stop attending. Personally i do not feel this is necessarily the right thing to do as there are people we do enjoy talking to, that do have manners. It just seems She does not feel it right for Her to say something or in any way put an end to it. And as such, yes the frustration is growing. Thus my "rant".

I didn't expect to gain any devine intervention/advice from this; one could always hope but truthfully i didnt hold my breath. What I did hope would occur was maybe, just maybe someone would see themselves in this post and if it saved one person the hurt feelings i've been having... wonderful!!

The problem seems to lie in not only these rude people but in the way that you feel your Mistress handles it, or doesn't as the case may be. It is also that you are NOT doing anything about it, whether to not be rude and have your Mistress be unhappy with your actions, or if it is just your nature to not be confrontational. I understand that you are secure in the relationship - being that it has been 5 years, but you obviously are frustrated. It is the little things that if allowed to grow and fester eventually become big issues.

My advice (worth exactly the $0.02) would be to send her a link to the post: let her read the rant, so she can really see how you have been feeling, and then ask to discuss it with her. Explain, respectfully, that you do NOT want to stop going, you are NOT jealous since you know she goes home with you, but you are very frustrated. Ask if she can perhaps advise you on a better way to handle when these things occur, since you currently feel the need to hold your tongue, but it is getting to you. Tell her you would not want to disrespect her in any way, and since you are HERS you understand your actions could be a reflection of her. Honestly, I would simply not allow anyone to treat my boy that way (I even posted last night frustrated that work/kids were giving him problems that I coudn't control, and how much it bothered me to have ANYONE mistreat him). What works for us, and who we are is different than the relationship others may have/want. he must trust me to make decisions that are best for OUR relationship. If you are telling her how you really feel, and asking her for better ways that you can handle it - beside just not going (which seems to be the solution she has given you so far) hopefully she will either give you a way to stand up for yourself, or see that she does need to handle it differently, although you are not actually asking her to do so.

Good luck!

< Message edited by AtlantaMistress -- 3/28/2008 8:39:43 PM >

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 9:47:51 PM

MaamJay

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I agree a lot with Mistress Sandy ... again *smile*. I think maybe your Mistress hasn't got a sufficiently good handle on how much it is frustrating you ... I think it is worth sharing this with Her. I think the behaviour you have been experiencing would be defined as extremely rude in My book ... I would have been putting a stop to it Myself, but then I am the assertive and protective type! Perhaps your Mistress isn't ... or simply hasn't really noticed it ... that's possible. Not everyone is equally observant to the same things in the same place ... just ask a number of witnesses to the one event! It is also possible She is hoping you will show some spine and learn how to deal with it, this could be one of these tough "self-growth" lessons.

One thing I would ask ... has She told you to hold your tongue ... or is this your assumed appropriate response? If it's not been a direct order from Her, then I would agree with kyra, it's you it's bothering, so speak up! Silence is taken as acquiescence ... and a licence to escalate the behaviour. Start with the more polite putdowns like "How very kind of you to keep my seat warm for me" with wry emphasis on the kind and spoken while lowering your arse! Yes I have sat on the lap of such who was too slow to move ... and being a big woman, they didn't make that mistake again in a hurry LOL! If necessary, simply put yourself in the appropriate physical space ie next to your Mistress, even if that means almost shouldering them out of the way ... you can always say "oh, sorry!" If you feel they are deliberately ignoring you and "seeing through you" you can always add "i didn't see you there" with a smile. These actions on your part might also serve to draw your Mistress' attention to these rude events which will be a double benefit. And yes, to a point, it's tit for tat, which I don't often recommend ... but for some people, it's the only way they learn!

Remember ... being a sub doesn't equal being a doormat, especially not to other outsiders!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/28/2008 10:46:13 PM

hermitcrab

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First, to the ones that understood what i was trying to say, thank you. I imagine, unless you've "been there" it's hard to see this as anything BUT insecurity/jealousy. Hoping you never find out otherwise via first hand experience.

I can not stress enough, it not being a case of being concerned that they are trying to "horn in on my place" as much as it is a case of pure disrespect/rudeness. *shrugs* I do know my place, it is secure and i wish nothing but Her happiness, but.... it has become harder and harder for me to smile through events. Again, those that understood thank you!!!!

To those that suggested confronting the "culprits" directly, today was a new day for me and yes indeed, a few of them did get direct emails explaining how i perceived their behavior and how it made me feel. Do i actually expect it to change? umm no, but some suggestions here did give me ideas on how to handle it without anyone being the wiser. I do have the ability to tell someone off without them realizing it, however have held my tongue out of respect for Mistress' wishes.

To answer the question of : does my Mistress *tell me* to hold my tongue or is this a self induced reaction....

She does indeed tell me that She expects me to "not stoop to their level and show them any sort of disrespect or be rude in any way"... "to remember my actions/words are a direct reflection of Her"...." "to overwhelm with kindness/polite behavior..to not in any way inflict hurt/discomfort upon others nor speak/behave in any manner that could cause anyone to create a "scene" at any event". *sighs*

Tonight i did speak to Her again and i truly believe She sees and understands. Permission has been given to redirect Her attention to another part of the room if this seems to be occuring. She did "see" the behavior at the last event and completely agrees it was rude, so She understands this isn't my imagination or a case of jealousy or insecurity, however She still feels that it must be handled with absolute grace and consideration for all involved. Respect for the ones hosting the events and as such not creating any situations where one may cause a scene is very important to us both. Thus me asking for advice/thoughts under a different name. It was done to prevent the gossip mill of our groups to have some juicy tidbits to toss about.

Diversion is our friend and i shall take "her" with me to every event we attend. It's called a cell phone and a text message that will cause Her to have to excuse Herself from those situations to "answer it". :)

Thank you all again

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/29/2008 7:38:42 AM

RavenMuse

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Something that never fails to amuse Me. The......

wannabe "i am a better sub/slave than the one You have"

Dom/me "I am not interested, now go away"

wannabe "but i want You to choose me over them. please, please, please i am SOOOOOO much more submissive than they are"

Dom/me "If you where honestly trying to obey and please Me... why then didn't you follow My first instruction and GO AWAY? you have already proven you are not in the same league as the one I have got, now FECK OFF!"

There is never any insult (Unless the Dom/mes profile states they are categorically not open to approaches) at someone politely enquiring if the Dom/me maybe interested in looking at any potential with them..... IF however they get a no and push it after that OR are not accepting of and are insulting the Dom/mes current obligations.... then they are just another wannabe waste of space, totally disinterested in the wishes of the Dom/me and only focused on their own wants..... hardly submissive.

< Message edited by RavenMuse -- 3/29/2008 7:41:06 AM >

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RE: is it true - 3/29/2008 8:16:47 AM

xxblushesxx

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I would expect my dom(me) to direct the conversation to me, and about me with someone like that...such as...

RUDEJERK: "Oh, MistressIdon'tknowyourname, I just LOVE to cook. What is your favorite dish?"

MISTRESSIDON'TKNOWYOURNAME: "Hmm...well...my favorite dish has to be the lovely chocolate mousse Hermit makes for me every Saturday. Hermit than serves it to me, without a spoon....Hermit, what is YOUR favorite dish?"

If your mistress did that for a while, the other would soon get tired of trying that subterfuge.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/29/2008 8:36:20 AM

LadyHathor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold

So....is your Mistress online?

spews coffee, you are wicked.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 3:05:06 AM

MaamJay

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Well while I might admire your Mistress for Her attempts at graciousness ... I truly believe there is a (rare) time and place for more blunt responses. If people clearly aren't taking the graceful "hints" and the "distractions" but are persisting in bad behaviour, then I would say they have so overstepped their mark as to no longer deserve My being so kind. I would be heavy handed then. I think, so that it's NOT the slave's behaviour reflecting badly on the Dominant ... it's the Dominant's job in that instance to be rather more powerful and crushing in Her response and redirection of the rude ones. I see it as the Dominant's job to protect their subs/slaves ... which means their mental state as much as their physical state. Or go to the hosts or Dungeon Monitor and tell them that x is being rude and won't take multiple hints that their presence isn't required ...

Good luck! It is good She now understands better anyway.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

Edited cos I missed a bit out!

< Message edited by MaamJay -- 3/31/2008 3:06:10 AM >

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 6:10:02 AM

velvetears

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As i was leaning over her to get my drink it would have accidentally spilled all over her

Ask these rude people DIRECT questions, maybe something like - Have you ever attended this event with your Mistress ____ before? It will make them have to acknowledge that they have someone. Do not allow them to ignore you - repeat as necessary, even if you have to reach out and lightly touch their shoulder when you speak. They are walking all over you and you are LETTING them. You don't have to be rude back to make your point but you do h ave to find your voice.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 8:07:30 AM

subtee

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quote:

Umm no, i don't believe it's jealousy as i know they have not a snowballs chance of taking my "place" so to speak.

I don't see an issue because of your above statement. Where is your security since they cannot replace you?

Bottom line: you can't control them, you'll not change their minds by pouting and you may make yourself look bad by letting them get to you. That wouldn't reflect well on your Mistress.

You can control yourself, your own reaction. Every time they try to pull this shit, I would suggest that you look deep into your Mistress' eyes and smile with the knowledge that they cannot have what you have. It seems to me you can give your Mistress the respect of showing at all times that she has made the right choice in you.

I wish you well.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 8:19:29 AM

DiurnalVampire

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I would suggest the one route that may not have been followed. Kill them with kindness.
Make a simple request of your Mistress... that should she see behavior like this beginning you and she had a signal that means it is starting to get to you. If this does hapen, perhaps the easiest way to go about treating rudeness is to make sure you are involved in the conversation. She can talk around the person, nudge them out of teh way so she can see you or request them to take a seat. Maybe a mention that they are blocking you, or asking for your input into the conversation with them will remind them she does in fact remember you are there with her.
After 3 years out and about, you could also go for the aloof they can try but she is mine and that aint changing attitude too. Smile and shake your head when someone acts this way, and when you step away from the table, a very subtle mention of "You do know she isnt looking, right?"might call their bluff too.
Fox is alowed to assert himself with people like that. If he feels someone is being rude, he is allowed to openly call them out on it, as long as HE stays respectful in his dialog. He has said things like "Hi, I am here too you know" or reminded them how lucky he is to have me as his Owner...

hope this helps
DV

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 10:05:07 AM

ILoveBaldMen

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One thing I want to stress is that you are her slave, you are a reflection of her. And while it might be difficult to hold your tongue when others are being rude... it is what she had made clear that she wants. So by not stooping down to their level, you have reinforced her belief that she has chosen well in deciding to own you. (Which in itself should make you feel proud.. smile)

On the other hand (completely changing view points), I am glad that she was able to see things from your perspective, and is looking to see how she can alleviate the issue. A couple of suggestions: One, if you have having issues with someone being rude, bring your mistress a glass of water, and place it beside her on the table. This does two things, it takes you away from the situation so you don't blow a gasket, and two the act itself lets the other person know very nicely who is serving her. Also if she does not get that hint, stand next to your mistress, either touching her chair or shoulder (depending on the nature of your relationship) and make eye contact with the other submissive. In doing so you force her to knowledge your presence (in some way), because to not to, will make her appear rude in front of your mistress.. .and that is the last thing she will want to do.

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RE: ok? not ok? - 3/31/2008 11:29:35 AM

angelbluewingsz

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on one hand - showing respect to your Mistress for her allowing you to have friends is akin to introducing yourself to a girls daddy and asking him before you ask her out.... I think it is good, but if it is clear they are trying to wiggle in close enough to get at your Mistress then remind yourself how lucky you are to have someone desireable and how dumb they are for trying.

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