RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (Full Version)

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Real_Trouble -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 3:44:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro
It's main problem is the fallacy of the false dilemma. The fact that one can write a play about a false dilemma doesn't make it a perfectly apt analogy for real world politics - in fact, far from it.


Completely agree.  This smacks of false dilemma to me as well; the real issue is not to be brain-dead at all.  I know plenty of brain dead liberals and brain dead conservatives, and more so, brain dead people who are neither libearal nor conservative.

Wild generalizations rarely accurately represent the real continuum of facts and reality.




cjan -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 4:56:21 PM)

I think some of y'all are being a li'l hard on the guy. Imo, he had his tongue in his cheek in many things he said in the piece. But, of course, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. Including Mamet.




RealityLicks -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 5:16:35 PM)

Well, this is just my general comment to all but it strikes me that Mamet himself sets up the polarised view of Left and Right  - so it matters not whether those who read the piece think so rigidly themselves, the point is to critique the essay and the essayist.  I haven't viewed the man as any kind of liberal since Oleanna but I'm sure someone who knows much better will put me right.




Griswold -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 5:35:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

John Maynard Keynes was twitted with changing his mind. He replied, "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

My favorite example of a change of mind was Norman Mailer at The Village Voice.

Norman took on the role of drama critic, weighing in on the New York premiere of Waiting for Godot.

Twentieth century's greatest play. Without bothering to go, Mailer called it a piece of garbage.

When he did get around to seeing it, he realized his mistake. He was no longer a Voice columnist, however, so he bought a page in the paper and wrote a retraction, praising the play as the masterpiece it is.

Every playwright's dream.


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html/full


You ALWAYS put all this shit out that requires THINKING on my part Level!!!!!

Can't you put out stuff that requires beer....or chocolate ice cream?

(I'd do that for you, you know!!!!!)




cjan -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 5:46:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Well, this is just my general comment to all but it strikes me that Mamet himself sets up the polarised view of Left and Right  - so it matters not whether those who read the piece think so rigidly themselves, the point is to critique the essay and the essayist.  I haven't viewed the man as any kind of liberal since Oleanna but I'm sure someone who knows much better will put me right.


I took a different view of what Mamet was saying. Rather than setting up a polarized view between  liberal and conservative (I've never yet met one person who is totally one or the other, of course, I've never met Cheney, he may be the exception that proves the rule) I took him to mean that as he matured, his views and opinions became less rigid. and he became more open to considering views he had previously rejected out of hand, without having investigated them for himself. For example, he says he never read the "conservative " economists before, and once he had, he reconsidered his views. To me, this is just typical of one of the differences of youth and maturity. As younguns, we think we know everything without having experienced much in reality. As we mature. many folks realize how little we really know.

Anyway, that's my take on it.




Level -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 5:58:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Griswold


quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

John Maynard Keynes was twitted with changing his mind. He replied, "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?"

My favorite example of a change of mind was Norman Mailer at The Village Voice.

Norman took on the role of drama critic, weighing in on the New York premiere of Waiting for Godot.

Twentieth century's greatest play. Without bothering to go, Mailer called it a piece of garbage.

When he did get around to seeing it, he realized his mistake. He was no longer a Voice columnist, however, so he bought a page in the paper and wrote a retraction, praising the play as the masterpiece it is.

Every playwright's dream.


http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0811,374064,374064,1.html/full


You ALWAYS put all this shit out that requires THINKING on my part Level!!!!!

Can't you put out stuff that requires beer....or chocolate ice cream?

(I'd do that for you, you know!!!!!)


For ya:

quote:

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich., March 26 (UPI) -- A Grand Rapids, Mich., barbershop owner said the state attorney general's office has put a stop to a promotion that offered patrons a free beer with a haircut.

Thomas Martin, owner of Jude's Barbershops, said an assistant attorney general ruled that his businesses cannot distribute free brews without a liquor license, the Grand Rapids (Mich.) Press reported Wednesday.

The ruling came after police told Martin his free beer promotion violated state and local laws.

"I'm glad we finally got clarity on the issue," Martin said. "Offering a complimentary beer is not something that we created, it's an old-fashioned service that was done years ago. We just brought it back with the other old-fashioned services that we provide." Martin said he plans to work with state legislators to legalize the complimentary booze service.



[:D]




Level -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 6:02:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjan

As we mature. many folks realize how little we really know.


Cjan, the older I get, the more I realize that my ignorance dwarfs what I know.




RealityLicks -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 6:15:53 PM)

It's not unheard of for people who make serious money to undergo a change opposite to Mamet's.  Having made it to the board, some find themselves arguing for tougher tax laws (especially here, where a canny millionaire can pay less tax than an average person and a billionaire, virtually nothing) and at least for a fairer distribution of the tax burden as an overall percentage of income.

Its a bit of a truism that age turns everyone conservative.  Clever to suggest that those who don't are either stupid or mad, though.




Level -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 6:21:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

It's not unheard of for people who make serious money to undergo a change opposite to Mamet's.  Having made it to the board, some find themselves arguing for tougher tax laws (especially here, where a canny millionaire can pay less tax than an average person and a billionaire, virtually nothing) and at least for a fairer distribution of the tax burden as an overall percentage of income.

Its a bit of a truism that age turns everyone conservative.  Clever to suggest that those who don't are either stupid or mad, though.


Warren Buffet would be a good example of that, I think?




RealityLicks -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 6:47:24 PM)

Maybe, but I was thinking more of tax changes than charitable giving, laudable as that is. 




Level -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 6:56:03 PM)

Let me dig a second, I think he called for higher taxes, RL.
 
Here we go:

quote:

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1996735.ece




Hippiekinkster -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 7:07:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It is a nice article...David is now sixty and rich. It's funny that a friend of mine that was pro choice while dating has now become pro life now that he has married and probably won't be knocking anyone up anytime soon.

I think that the term liberal is a poor definition or catch all. If you care about the environment you are a liberal...Why can't I be viewed as being conservative when it comes to fucking up this planet's air and water?



Getting married does that to some people. Makes them more mature and maybe rethink some of their priorities and beliefs. Others who actually believe that conservatives like having bad air and water will continue to be brain dead.
Anyone else see the ironic cognitive dissonance between "Boycott Whales" and the above statement?




popeye1250 -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/26/2008 11:20:35 PM)

I don't know why some people continue to call Bush a Republican, he's not.
He's nothing but a mouthpiece for Big Business, they got "their guy" in.




Manawyddan -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/29/2008 4:58:53 AM)

That quotation has always irked the crap out of me, more so given that I was extremely politically conservative when I was younger, and have become increasingly left-wing as I've gotten older.

And anyone who idolised JFK ... is so politically clueless it doesn't surprise me that they'd 'discover' that there were problems with liberalism.





Griswold -> RE: David Mamet: why I am no longer a brain-dead liberal (3/29/2008 7:43:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

C'mon...For the majority it has nothing to do with "maturing." It has to with being a hypocrite. We criticize drug use when "we" are no longer taking drugs...We criticize the sexual lifestyle of others when "we" no longer partake in a lifestyle that is sexual.


I haven't partaken in everyone's sexual lifestyle yet...so, for the next 3 months I ain't saying shit.




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