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Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/24/2008 10:05:46 PM

cyberdude611

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Chinese police started shooting at demonstrators today in an escalating situation in Tibet.

Tibet authorities claim 140 people have been killed while the Chinese claim the number at only 22. International journalists and outsiders are banned from the air. And the Chinese government has cut off internet access.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_re_as/india_tibet_protests

Post #: 1

RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/24/2008 10:54:08 PM

Vendaval

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Horrible, but all too predictable. It's a long time until August...

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 3:08:13 AM

meatcleaver

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Sadly too predictable once the violence started which I suspect is why the Dalai Lama is calling for peaceful resistance, though one can understand young Tibetans getting frustrated. The west will do nothing but wring its hands and maybe call for a boycvott of the Olmpics but it won't allow the Tibetans to get in the way of business, business is far more important than a free Tibet.

But I guess, like many people on this thread say about Palestinian fight for freedom, you fight, you get killed. Tough.

I jest, I'm just amused by the hypocrisy.

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 6:31:56 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Sadly too predictable once the violence started which I suspect is why the Dalai Lama is calling for peaceful resistance, though one can understand young Tibetans getting frustrated. The west will do nothing but wring its hands and maybe call for a boycvott of the Olmpics but it won't allow the Tibetans to get in the way of business, business is far more important than a free Tibet.

But I guess, like many people on this thread say about Palestinian fight for freedom, you fight, you get killed. Tough.
I jest, I'm just amused by the hypocrisy.

MC,
I thought it was an excellent point. The Tibetans should bring in some Palestinian 'advisers'. After all, they can solicit suicide bombers, teach their children to blow themselves up, lob mortars onto a beach and still get political support at the UN and billions of dollars in aid. It made Arafat's family, living in Paris, extremely wealthy.

The Dali Lama should tap into that gravy train. Obviously this peaceful approach hasn't done much for them. Look at the support that has generated. The Palestinians have Sean Penn and the Tibetans have Richard Gere.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/25/2008 7:24:12 AM >

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 6:49:56 AM

mastervalentine

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"You can take away my possessions, they are trivial and insignificant things.You can take away my life, it was destined to end someday, and I do not fear its passing. However, my dignity, I choose to keep. Without it, I become like you." I feel like I heard it somewhere before, but I can't give you a name or date to the quote. Anyone knows, feel free to fill in the glaring omission for me.

I ... will not speak ill of other peoples and cultures. I will say that it's a shame that one feels such strong need to silence another.

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 7:00:11 AM

cyberdude611

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Different situation though....

The Palestinians want Israel out. Many think Israel is an illegal occupation and should leave.

People in Tibet have no intention of making a claim on Chinese territory. Tibet only wants autonomy from the Chinese government.

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 7:02:18 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Different situation though....

The Palestinians want Israel out. Many think Israel is an illegal occupation and should leave.

People in Tibet have no intention of making a claim on Chinese territory. Tibet only wants autonomy from the Chinese government.

No difference. The Palestinians want the occupiers of their land to go home, they are not making a claim for Israeli territory but their own territory.

Even the UN recognizes that the Israeli occupation of Palestinian occupied land is illegal. The US is the only country that protects the Israeli illegal occupation.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 3/25/2008 7:04:48 AM >

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 7:16:57 AM

cyberdude611

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Palestinian terrorist groups want to see the destruction of Israel. It not just about territory. If it was, this issue would have been over with many years ago. The reason Israel doesnt want to give up that occupied land is because they want to hold that bargaining chip to force the palestinian government, as well as Syria and Iran, to end the terrorist groups that want to destroy Israel. The spiritual leader of Hezbollah Seyyed Hassen Nasrallah says there will be no peace until Israel is destroyed.

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Post #: 8

RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 7:21:37 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Palestinian terrorist groups want to see the destruction of Israel. It not just about territory. If it was, this issue would have been over with many years ago. The reason Israel doesnt want to give up that occupied land is because they want to hold that bargaining chip to force the palestinian government, as well as Syria and Iran, to end the terrorist groups that want to destroy Israel. The spiritual leader of Hezbollah Seyyed Hassen Nasrallah says there will be no peace until Israel is destroyed.

Quoting leaders of groups that were created as a direct result of Israeli aggression doesn't prove your point. All the major Arabs states have declared that they would settle with Israel if they withdraw to pre-1967 borders. Israel refuses. Groups like Hezbollah and Hamas would become an irrelevence in a comprehensive agreements between states.

What China is doing to Tibet, Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Both should witrhdraw from occupied territories.

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 9:43:13 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

All the major Arabs states have declared that they would settle with Israel if they withdraw to pre-1967 borders.

Missing from that are the people actually living there - you know - the ones sending a rocket or two into Israel on a daily basis.

They'd "settle". Does that mean they would end their financial and armament support? Will it mean that Saudi Arabian citizens who are found smuggling weapons would be subject to investigation and arrest in Saudi Arabia?

It's nice to know that the "major Arab States" would provide lip service support if Israel goes back to pre 1967 borders. Practically though it is immaterial, and does not provide a foundation for regional peace.

BTW - Last time I checked, Iran was considered a "major Arab State". Where has their President said he'd support such a position? I seem to recall him, and therefor the Country he represents, committed to Israel's destruction. President Ahmadinejad wasn't the one converted by the Pope on Easter was he?

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 9:55:32 AM

cyberdude611

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When the President of Iran is screaming for the destruction of Israel?

Give me a break. The major arab states have provided no such assurances that they will ever end their support for Palestinian terrorism. And even if they did, there is no gurantee such terrorism will end. These arab states have created so many Islamic radicals that Im not so sure they can even control them anymore.

And last I checked, the 1967 war was caused by arabs invading Israel. And the arabs were humiliated in that war. Why should Israel give back what they won? Borders are forged by war. That's the reality of civilization.

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 3/25/2008 10:00:42 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 10:03:57 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Missing from that are the people actually living there - you know - the ones sending a rocket or two into Israel on a daily basis.

As is normally conveniently missing from the American perspective is that Israel occupied the disputed lands in a war of aggression they started and the US supported. Who threw the first stone? The answer is Israel, who have continued to illegally occupy Palestinian land while breaking every human rights law, treay and charter. All aided and abetted by the US. So its actually pretty laughable when America comes on strong about China occupying Tibet.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

BTW - Last time I checked, Iran was considered a "major Arab State". Where has their President said he'd support such a position? I seem to recall him, and therefor the Country he represents, committed to Israel's destruction. President Ahmadinejad wasn't the one converted by the Pope on Easter was he?

It is Arab by default according to Americans because it is muslim. The Arab states are accommodating Iran since the invasion of Iraq and the one country that could neutralize Iran's power in the region being taken out of the equation.

Even though Iranians aren't Arabs, why let an inconvenient fact get in the way.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 3/25/2008 10:07:03 AM >

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 10:29:56 AM

cyberdude611

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Iranians are arabs or not doesnt matter...they are a muslim nation that refuses to recognize Israel's right to existance.

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Post #: 13

RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 11:00:10 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Iranians are arabs or not doesnt matter...they are a muslim nation that refuses to recognize Israel's right to existance.

Yawn.

I can see why America is no good at being an honest broker at peace conferences.

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 11:15:06 AM

luckydog1

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Meat, you are the one who brought in the term "Major Arab Countries". A better term would be Major regional countries that want to destroy Isreal, which includes Iran, which is a major supporter of both Hezbollah and Hamas. Both of whom are committed to the elimination of Isreal. Iran is a Major Regional Country, which does have a heck of a lot of Arabs in its borders.

America is great at peace confrences, when both sides want peace.

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Post #: 15

RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 11:17:36 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

It is Arab by default according to Americans because it is muslim. The Arab states are accommodating Iran since the invasion of Iraq and the one country that could neutralize Iran's power in the region being taken out of the equation.

Even though Iranians aren't Arabs, why let an inconvenient fact get in the way.

MC,
Stipulating that your disenfranchisement of Iran from the league of Arab Nations as fact; consequently it would then seem that Iran and not Israel is the major barrier to a successful negotiated peace in the area.

That is an interesting throught...

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/25/2008 10:08:27 PM

luckydog1

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I don't think that was the correct marxist position to conclude from that Merc....

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RE: Tibet exiles: 140 killed in demonstrations - 3/26/2008 4:52:38 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

It is Arab by default according to Americans because it is muslim. The Arab states are accommodating Iran since the invasion of Iraq and the one country that could neutralize Iran's power in the region being taken out of the equation.

Even though Iranians aren't Arabs, why let an inconvenient fact get in the way.
MC,
Stipulating that your disenfranchisement of Iran from the league of Arab Nations as fact; consequently it would then seem that Iran and not Israel is the major barrier to a successful negotiated peace in the area.

That is an interesting throught...

Iran is occupying no one and has no subjugated people under its yoke.

Iran is meddling in the region but it is part of the region, the US is an occupying power in the region and comes from a different hemisphere! The US won't let any nation outside what it considers its backyard to meddle in its sphere so Iran isn't doing anything the US hasn't and doesn't do. You know, Chile, Nicaragua, Granada, Cuba etc.

Iranians aren't Arabs nor are they a member of the Arab league and one could say it is the US that is getting in the way of a regional settlement. Many of the US's European allies have been frustrated by the US's uncritical backing of Israel and its willingness to approve Israel's illegal actions, especially at a time when the US keeps talking about civilisation and the rule of law.

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