Shattered Trust or Selfishness (Full Version)

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LadyHathor -> Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:19:39 AM)

Let Me try to set the stage a bit here----for those that know Me, you know that I asore My UM, she has recentky turned 18, is bright, funny, sweet, and basically an all around good person and child--I could not be more pleased---overall-- Add to that, My mother passed three years ago, leaving a huge hole in our lives we are still recovering from.
 
We have no other relatives, none and few friends ( though the ones we have are close and dear)--so come holidays that traitionally see gifts, we are sparse, more so now. Over the past several gift buying opportunities because UM is in school and not working, I of course give her money to purchase for Me--( a role Mom would have done--the helping not the funding)--here is the rub----the last several holidays that see gifts, UM has spent a portion on Me an purchased something for herself--at times admitting to it as if its the most natural thing and this time, she lied about it---volunteered the lie no less ( I hadn't know anything and thought it quite acceptable until I found the receipt)--
 
Now we are not short of money at all--she is not overindulged ( no i pod, no fancy cell phone, no vides games)--but she has all that a teen could have--a huge room tv, dvd player, boom box, clothes etc--and to boot I just got a bonus from work and as part of tradition, shared a portion with her for her to use as she sees fit (within reason)--so it isnt that she doesn't get money or things.  Add to that, what she does purchase for me shows a great deal of thought, are things I really like and enjoy.
 
So I am in this quandry---I am torn between feeling if I say something I am being selfish and being irritated that I see it as selfish in her part--and blowing it off because she is a good teen and I have no problems with her.
 
Ideas?
 
 




sirsholly -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:38:59 AM)

A quick question...did you make it clear to her that the money you are giving her is to be spent for gift giving only?




LadyHathor -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:41:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

A quick question...did you make it clear to her that the money you are giving her is to be spent for gift giving only?


Well, not in so many words, I thought it was pretty implicit--if it wasn't understood, why the lie?




pahunkboy -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:46:13 AM)

Show her the receipt.

Next gift time, a nominal donation to charity.






RCdc -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:48:53 AM)

I do not give money to anyone to get me gifts.  If someone wants to purchase something they will.  It's my birthday today and I got two cards from my children, both hand made on simple card.  That is worth far more than giving them the money to go buy something to me.  My son even bought Darcy beer with his own money as a gift a few weeks back, not with money I gave him, but that which he had earnt himself because he wanted to, not because he had to.
 
I teach them the value of money and that presents are not as important as the sentiment behind them.  I know I am going to sound slightly callous here, but you created the problem yourself by giving money in the first place so although I understand your upset, I would say you brought it on yourself.  My advise is to not give money out like that again.
 
the.dark.




sirsholly -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:51:10 AM)

I would show her the reciept and then pose the "trust vs selfishness" question to her.




angelikaJ -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 4:56:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

A quick question...did you make it clear to her that the money you are giving her is to be spent for gift giving only?


Well, not in so many words, I thought it was pretty implicit--if it wasn't understood, why the lie?


Have_a_heart_to_heart_expressing_your_surprise
and_disappointment_and_ask_her.

The_lie_is_what_makes_it_unacceptable;
it_isn't_her_thoughtful_frugal_shopping.

Did_she_resort_to_the_lie_after_you_expressed
your_displeasure_at_her_having_spent_some_on_herself?
(I_am_not_excusing_it)

A_thought...?
Perhaps_since_she_often_has_change_left_over_either
give_her_less_to_spend_or_request_the_change_back
and_then_donate_it_on-line_to_a_charity_you_both_agree
on..and/or_let_her_know_that_she_is_robbing_you_of_the
pleasure_of_buying_for_her_if_she_has_a_need_or_want.




Rule -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:15:57 AM)

Make her get a job, if only one afternoon per week. Do not show her the receipt and do not give her any more money, except to spend on herself. Next time do as the Dark does and give her something simple, like a pair of socks that you knitted yourself. Do not comment on her behaviour.




LadyHathor -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:20:10 AM)

 a good point, however, she is in high school, lives at home and does not work so how does one cover holiday gifts if you do not give them money?
 
 




pahunkboy -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:21:22 AM)

giving someone money to get a gift is...  not my thing.



if so- $0.11 would have suficed.   gold fish are 10 for a $.  use a recycled jar- feed with pinches of bread.

simply delightful-  house of fun for all.   all for eleven cents.




LadyHathor -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:29:07 AM)

perhaps you are all right, I guess it is selfish of Me--thinking that I won't have something to open on holidays or a card if I don't fund it- and feeling bad that there won't be anything--
 
-funny how we can be at times children---I suppose I need more introspection and not expect that there will be anything there and realize what is important.
 
[:o]




camille65 -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:34:45 AM)

If she receives an allowance, explain that she will need to learn how to budget in holiday gifts. You may need to increase it a bit but it may be a good lesson for her on how to save money and plan ahead, something everyone should learn before living life on their own.




pahunkboy -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:35:01 AM)

Time is the MOST precious gift.   At least to me.




sirsholly -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:36:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

If she receives an allowance, explain that she will need to learn how to budget in holiday gifts. You may need to increase it a bit but it may be a good lesson for her on how to save money and plan ahead, something everyone should learn before living life on their own.


Bingo!!! [sm=applause.gif]




LadyHathor -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:47:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: camille65

If she receives an allowance, explain that she will need to learn how to budget in holiday gifts. You may need to increase it a bit but it may be a good lesson for her on how to save money and plan ahead, something everyone should learn before living life on their own.


Bingo!!! [sm=applause.gif]



all of you, some very sound advice as always----yes, a good budget plan and perhaps not so much feeling of aloneness on holidays from My part---I am blessed is so many ways, I need to look deeper at those things---I am so human sometimes--
 
[:o]


edited to make it look better---




sirsholly -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 5:57:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor
---I am so human sometimes--
 
[:o]



Sure you are human...but you also sound like a really good mom. You have a lucky daughter...




RCdc -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 6:01:14 AM)

Neither do mine.  They get their allowance or earn by doing chores.  They have been taught to budget and save from an early age.  In my years, I have had glittered covered matchboxes, paintings in a frame made by their own hand, fairy cakes and even dinner cooked for me.  These are gifts far more precious than anything they might buy.  Today, I got a tiny mobile phone buddy(cuddly dog), and a glittery mobile phone cover.  They chose and bought them themselves.  It costs little, but meant so much.  And I never gave them a penny nor sent them out.  They did it themselves.  It's not wrong to want to be appriciated, but time and thought are the gifts, not material goods.
 
the.dark.





MissMorrigan -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 7:27:27 AM)

Lady Hathor, I also come from a very small family, just the immediate family members and few friends (do have an enormous extended family but we're rarely in touch). I was raised mainly (until I was eleven) by my father/his parents and I'd have to work to earn my pocket money - out of which I had to budget for gifts, etc... I valued that process, it taught me the value of money and instilled in me the virtue of having to work for my money. Then, when I went to live with my mother from the age of twelve onwards, I never had to work, I was given money. I knew I was being given money to cover everything I needed, including gifts, but the more I got, the more I spent, including gifts for myself. I was comfort buying. I didn't see any harm in buying myself a little gift when I purchased others. I was buying those little gifts to make myself feel better about a number of issues, the fact my family was so small, the fact I felt somewhat lonely despite having friends and so on.

Years later, when I became a mother my son had to do chores, for which he received pocket money. If he wanted money he had to work for it. I was very strict about that. At fourteen I made him take a saturday job at a butchers. His friends never had to work b/c their parents gave them an inordinate amount of pocket money each week, sometimes up to £50, that was b/c they were rarely at home so the kids really became their own 'parents' in that respect - it was guilt money. My son was resentful that they could go out and buy all the labelled designer trainers/clothes, I refused to allow any designer items in my home. We were often at odds over this, but I stuck to my guns. He continued earning his pocket money and buying any gifts out of it. Years later, and now an adult, he thanks me for being so strict with him and teaching him the value of money.

There is no quandary as such in your situation, Lady Hathor. You asked for ideas, my suggestion is get her a saturday job, something she can enjoy, have fun with and learn to budget once she is earning regularly. It'll give her a sense of pride and feel she's achieving something, I also sense her doing a little comfort buying (with the money you provide), just don't see her behaviour as selfish as clearly she's thoughtful (you've said as such) so there's something else going on there hence my comment regarding comfort buying. What do us ladies do to make ourselves feel better? We shop! So I'd forget the chat you initially want to have with her about this, it's time for a chat of another kind to find out what's going on with her. Help her find a saturday job and see how it goes from thereon out.

Good luck with that.




DesFIP -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 7:28:15 AM)

If she's not working, and she doesn't have an allowance, then how else is she to buy stuff for herself without coming to you hat in hand every time. And nobody likes to importune others for money or to be put in a position of begging.

I think that you're overreacting. Imagine a 50's style household where the wife is given housekeeping money and manages to save a few dollars on the groceries. Is she a liar or a thief if she saves enough money for a book or a box of chocolates for herself? No, of course not.

She's still buying you thoughtful gifts, she just isn't giving you back the change. Do you expect her when given $25 to find something that comes out at that with tax? Of course not. So unless you're asking for an accounting each time, I think your reaction is a bit much. She is learning to shop carefully, you're still getting great gifts, and she gets something small she really wanted but didn't want to ask you for.

However if it bothers you that much, then maybe she needs to get a job over the summer and save some money.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Shattered Trust or Selfishness (3/24/2008 7:35:25 AM)

quote:

So I am in this quandry---I am torn between feeling if I say something I am being selfish and being irritated that I see it as selfish in her part--and blowing it off because she is a good teen and I have no problems with her.


"Loan me  $20 so I can buy you a present" -- it's often said as a joke, but it's quite the case where UMs are concerned.

In my personal experience, I have found the prospect of giving a person money specifically to buy me a gift to be counterproductive.  It's not "giving" as I see it.

You are giving her money, and she is spending it how she feels is appropriate.  She is giving you a gift, and in one respect the fact that she spends some on herself validates the gift giving (she sees the money as hers, not yours, so she is in her mind spending "her" money on you).

Rather than giving her money outright, make it a recompense for chores or some other task, and make that the predicate for her receiving the money.  Then it is unquestionably hers to do with as she pleases, and the dilemma evaporates as a consequence.




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